Skip to main content

View Diary: What Do You Think Of This Racial Comment? (77 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Wow. Is that all you have to say about my diary? (4+ / 0-)

    That's the one thing you chose to pick out? The fact that I referred to her as "the new girl"?

    For the record, the first time I met Sarah, I guessed she was about my age, a whole decade younger than she actually was. I still can't really believe it looking at her, which is why I typed "new girl" without thinking, cause I don't think of her as an older lady. My bad.

    Good eye catching me being a right callous misogynistic bastard seeking to demean my female co-workers, did you have any thoughts on the actual substance of the diary?

    Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

    by Boogalord on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 10:29:02 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Given the subject matter and POV (13+ / 0-)

      of your diary, it jumps out.  As somebody else mentioned, there's no doubt you had the best of intentions.  And very good on what you did, it's never easy.  In talking about it, you also discovered for both others and  yourself where you need to be more aware.  Live and learn.  The redeeming quality of mistakes is that they give us the quickest path to do that learning.

      "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" ~Dr. Samuel Johnson

      by ActivistGuy on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 11:04:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think you meant well. (9+ / 0-)

      And I give you credit for trying to learn. It's just difficult to get to the part about racism when it starts with that bit of sexism.

      Note: A girl stops being a girl when she reaches puberty. The issue isn't that your co-worker is older than you. It's that she hasn't been a girl for many years. I don't watch it, but I believe Mad Men is about businessmen during the '60's, prior to the women's revolution. It was common for men of that time to say, "I'll have my girl call your girl" when referring to their obviously no-longer-girls secretaries. We women thought we had put a stop to that a long time ago. So, when I saw it, it just slapped me in the face.

      You may want to republish with that minor edit. Just alter the title to differentiate.

    •  For the record ... (6+ / 0-)

      ... that explanation didn't help. Friendly advice: edit your introductory material and get rid of at least that much of the problem. Otherwise the irony of your brave admission of white privilege while stubbornly refusing to acknowledge your male privilege is going to derail any conversation about what you say is your substance. Editing the first paragraph doesn't eliminate the fact that you presume to know why she said what she said that made you feel so superior to her, but at least it won't shine a big ol' light on it.

      You didn't know it was offensive to many people, and that's fine. That's just ignorance, not evil. (And no, the fact that it's not offensive to all women at all times does not negate that. And no, the fact that some women call each other or refer to each other as "girls" does not negate that. Anything echoing here??)

      Now you know. Ball's in your court.

      •  I'm not going to edit the diary. (5+ / 0-)

        It's pretty obvious that the particular phrasing inspired many of the replies to it, and to edit it would be removing context from the discussion as well as being gutless on my part.

        Look, I get the point. It is important that women are referred to as equals in the workplace, by their co-workers and bosses. The word "girl" carries a negative/lesser/demeaning connotation with many women for good reason as it relates to the workplace. I maintain that I meant absolutely nothing by using the phrase "new girl" instead of "new person", but nevertheless it is a term that bothers many women and I will be more conscious of that in the future.

        Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

        by Boogalord on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 11:25:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  At this point, I agree. When I started writing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          serendipityisabitch

          the comment, it was before many of the others. It's too late now -- probably just as well for people to see where you're coming from. I'll leave it there.

          The rest of your diary is an important topic, but beyond the time I have today. Good luck.

        •  In my opinion (2+ / 0-)

          as a Native American woman, the people totally ignoring of
          Boogalord's concerns about white privilege and focusing on one word concerning women instead, is a perfect example of White privilege.  I could see people remarking on it, and then commenting on the rest of his diary as being all right. But when the only thing that concerns you enough in this diary to comment on is a word concerning women tells me quite a bit about white privlege.
           

          Be well, ~*-:¦:-jennybravo-:¦:-*~

          by jennybravo on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 12:58:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You can edit it to show the changes (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          88kathy, crose

          a line through "girl" followed by "co-worker" just like some other diarists do to make a point, that when one phrase isn't strong enough, they cross it out and replace it with something stronger.

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 01:09:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Think of it as the equivalent of the Grammar (0+ / 0-)

      Nazis. One misplaced apostrophe and the rest of the diary doesn't count.

      Good diary. And a nice comeback, for an off the cuff reply.

      As to your main point, it's going to take some thinking. It strikes me that once "white privilege" gets thrown in to an argument, any real discussion has been derailed, however accurate the concept may be, but I'm still working out where I'm coming from on that.

      At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

      by serendipityisabitch on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 11:14:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually it is writing 101. The first sentence of (2+ / 0-)

        any written material is second only in importance to the title.

        Sometimes talking to your editor can be a bitch. Especially when you thought you nailed it and didn't.

        give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

        by 88kathy on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 01:39:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  One would hope that you'd then apply this (0+ / 0-)

          dictum to every other diary where the first sentence didn't do much to forward the story the diary is telling, and mention to the author why they should have written a different lead-in? You'll be busy - my estimate is that at least half of the diaries in the Recent list start off that way.

          Sorry, 88kathy, but I don't buy it. Even if I thought that any particular commenter was justified in acting as an editor on the GOS, I wouldn't buy it. It's an interesting diary, with - possibly - a fluff by the diarist at the beginning, and I haven't seen you commenting on anything except the fluff. Otoh, I haven't read all the new comments in the last hour or so, so if you have, I apologize.

          At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

          by serendipityisabitch on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 02:13:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No particular commenter is an editor. However, I (0+ / 0-)

            have seen diaries get editorial comments in the comment sections. And I have see diaries updated from the comments sections many times. Mostly my editorial comments have been to expand diaries I thought were good but too short.

            Many times when I edited friend's essays for school, I crossed out the first 3 paragraphs. Usually putting them elsewhere in the piece.

            It's not easy taking blue pen in public. A speedy edit with a hat tip to the commenter who suggested it makes it a little bump. I have seen this happen many times. I was trying to give the diarist a way out. That was not to be.

            The resistance to a reasonable edit makes it red meat. And has an impact on the tone which the reader 'hears' in the piece.

            give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

            by 88kathy on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 02:29:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  PS I know you are not calling me a fluffy nazi. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            serendipityisabitch, Catte Nappe

            Don't you just love the comment section.

            give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

            by 88kathy on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 02:29:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Chortle. No, you're right, I wasn't. (0+ / 0-)

              Still, I thought there were valid points in the diary that very few people ever got to because of the first slew of "omg he's being sexist" comments.

              At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

              by serendipityisabitch on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 02:36:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  More meta thoughts - (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              88kathy

              So many times the first few comments either set the tone for almost everything that follows, or start a flame war. It's hard for a lot of people to jump in with a comment once 'sides' have been declared, so many comments that might have led to real discussion tend not to be made at all. Especially on this type of topic.

              At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

              by serendipityisabitch on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 02:43:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  'Good eye catching me being a right callous (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      johnny wurster

      misogynist . . ..'

      Good.  Good second step, self-evaluation of your behaviour.   (I won't comment o the 'bastard' except to cite Miss May Angelou who taught us that 'when a person tells you what they are, believe them.')

    •  I figure you would have said 'new guy'. (2+ / 0-)

      instead of new 'boy' like someone else suggested.

      I suppose everyone takes offense that there is a show on TV called The New Girl? No? I didn't think so.

      The offense Du Jour. Everyone enjoy.

      But on topic per your questions...
      Yes, what she said was racist. As to why she said it...habit? She was comfortable enough to be on a new job and say it - so I tend to doubt it was said out of hand/character' for her.

      -6.38, -6.21: Lamented and assured to the lights and towns below, Faster than the speed of sound, Faster than we thought we'd go, Beneath the sound of hope...

      by Vayle on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 11:24:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  a 24 year old? (5+ / 0-)

      still isn't a girl.

      first rule of holes: stop digging.  apologize, learn from it, and move on.

    •  Well it was the first sentence. (0+ / 0-)

      The first sentence is quite like the title. It is in a prominent position. And your double down makes it ever more prominent.

      At the beginning of a written work stands the opening sentence. Considered "most important",[1] the opening sentence needs to entice the reader[2] and sets the subject, the tone and possibly the style for the whole work,[3] although this does not have to be obvious.[4]
      Writing 101.

      give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

      by 88kathy on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 01:34:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't need to be so defensive (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      emsprater, LilithGardener, m2old4bs

      You actually couldn't have illustrated your point any better if you'd tried on purpose. How easily and naturally she said what she said. How easily and naturally you wrote what you wrote. You are willing to explore what you think might have influenced her comment. There's additional opportunity to explore how these things happen vis a vis what influenced you to write what you did.

      “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

      by Catte Nappe on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 01:57:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'd have to say there is a point to ...... (0+ / 0-)

      discussing your use of terms while pontificating about other's use of terms.

      In my mind's eye, it shows that perhaps the 'new girl' was just as oblivious to her transgression as you were to yours.

      But, the focus of the diary is her transgression and how it's such an indicator of all that's wrong with society.  So yours really should be allowed to pass.

      Nothing changes without public pressure: public pressure doesn't happen without dissemination of knowledge and 'true' facts. Bit me FOX.

      by emsprater on Thu Jul 04, 2013 at 02:09:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site