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View Diary: States starting to take action on retirement security (42 comments)

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  •  Why these plans don't work (0+ / 0-)

    The big problem with these 401(k) and IRA plans is that people are allowed to take the money out or borrow against it.  In order for this to work, we must be unflinchingly paternalistic.  The grasshoppers need to be protected against themselves.  Contributions must be mandatory, and no withdrawals should be allowed until retirement, and then only in the form of annuity payments.

    •  The big problem with 401k and IRA plans (4+ / 0-)

      is that they're rooted in the idea that people who can't make this months rent have "extra" money (false), that the stock market will always go up (false) and that brokerages have an innate right to make money from the very people they've driven into poverty.

      Wall Street is not the cure for the problem of the retirement insecurity of the common people.

      It's the CAUSE.

      Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

      by JesseCW on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 07:39:42 PM PDT

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      •  What's the alternative? Not save at all? (0+ / 0-)

        The argument that people don’t have the extra money to put into these plans could just as easily be made against the payroll tax.  It’s better to struggle while you are still young enough to work than to have to struggle when you are sick and old.

        As to what the money should be invested in, that is a debatable subject.  My point is that if you don’t make it mandatory and forbid withdrawals, it won’t matter how good the investment is:  most people will find excellent reasons why they need the money right now.

        •  Extend Social Security (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW, ModerateJosh, FindingMyVoice

          And finance it by taxing all incomes without the hyper-regressive ceiling we currently have.

          The whole notion of private pensions is a con, predicated on another con, the notion that wealth can be stored, nicely and safely tucked away somewhere until you need it.

          I deal in facts. My friends are few but fast.

          by Farugia on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 08:48:52 PM PDT

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          •  These folks want to replace it with mandatory (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Farugia, Cameron Hoppe

            401(k)s you're never allowed to withdraw money from, even if you're homeless and at risk of dying of exposure.

            That's who they are.  They believe that Wall Street is simply entitled to profit from you labor as much as possible, and the believe that the purpose of Government is to force you to hand over your wages to the rich.

            This is what Pinochet did to Chile's government pensions, btw.  And millions are in poverty today because of it.

            Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

            by JesseCW on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 08:56:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Nonsense. Social Security is run at 1% overhead. (0+ / 0-)

          It's a wealth transfer program, not some pathetic something-for-nothing scheme.

          I'm not just baffled by people who can't tell the difference between a government service and some "savvy businessman" trying to rip them off, I'm deeply saddened by it.

          That's neither hyperbole nor snark.  So many people like you can't even tell what government is or what it's for that I seriously doubt whether it's possible to save the American experiment.

          Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

          by JesseCW on Sat Jul 06, 2013 at 08:54:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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