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View Diary: Update: Canada "Ghost Train"on Fire Hours Before Runaway (138 comments)

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  •  Unless you care to factor in the cost (4+ / 0-)

    of the American military buildup and the dead and wounded from all our oil-wars, you'll never get close. In Europe they pay about $3 per liter ($12 per gallon US) for gasoline, and a little more for diesel.

    LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

    by BlackSheep1 on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 01:03:56 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Who is "they"? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rashaverak

      My understanding is that the discrepancy in price in Europe vs. the USA is almost entirely due to taxation, so in reality they are not paying for the fuel, they are paying for services the government provides (universal health care, for example).

      •  "they" == drivers in the UK / Eurozone (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rashaverak, happymisanthropy

        I've no idea what the going $$$ in the former USSR or the Middle East is, but hearing about paying $12-$15gal for gas strikes me as ... incentivizing alternatives.

        LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

        by BlackSheep1 on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 02:22:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It does reduce demand, for sure (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rashaverak, mmacdDE

          (there's a dearth of big ass SUVs over there, for example)

          And no doubt coaxes many to take the train, which can be good or bad depending on the country (e.g., good in France where most electricity is generated by nuclear power, less so in the coal intensive countries).

          But overall for society, it costs them no more than it costs us for liquid fossil fuels.  For example let's say I pay $100 per month for gasoline and $400 for health car insurance - I'm out $500.

          In their case they'd pay $500 per month for gasoline (or more likely diesel, but whatever) and receive "free" healthcare - but when all is said and done they'd also be out $500.

          basically they have a different way for paying for things, not that fuel costs more for them (NG being a (probably temporary) exception at present)

          •  uhm (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BlackSheep1, Roadbed Guy

            Not sure I agree ... but let me continue your analogy.

            The key point is that the efficiency of the economy is impacted. Less oil/energy is used (since most European countries ate net importers that is a good thing for the economy - and definitely better than if fuel is unnecessarily wasted) AND health care the European way gives better outcomes. So even if the prices paid did work out as you suggest, Europe is better off from a bang per buck analysis.

            There's room at the top they're telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill

            by taonow on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 05:08:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not sure if the efficiency of their economy (0+ / 0-)

              is impacted so much as their economies just develop differently.    

              e.g., energy intensive industries move elsewhere allowing stats like "GDP per unit of energy used" to look really good for them.  

              In any event, I guess what I'd say is the fuel is necessarily wasted (as compared to unnecessarily wasted) in places like the USA and especially China compared to Europe.  

              here's a link with a little bit more about that: Outsourced Emissions Dwarf  CO2 Cuts in Developed World, Study Says

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