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View Diary: "They Like Sticking It To The United States" (330 comments)

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  •  Please don't add (0+ / 0-)

    AIPAC conspiracy theory to this subject.

    It's bad enough as it is.

    Israel hasn't offered asylum to anyone the U.S. wants to arrest, which would parallel this diary.

    Israel spying has nothing to do with "sticking it to the U.S."

    The diary is about a doofus democrat saying countries who offer asylum to Snowden want to stick it to the U.S.

    Israel isn't even in that category.

    Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek. Barack Obama

    by delphine on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 03:27:26 PM PDT

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    •  Not AIPAC conspiracy theory - facts (5+ / 0-)

      the comment was about "sticking it to the US"

      1. Israel does spy on the US. Fact.

      2. Israel does treat the Palestinians terribly. Support of their policy by the US diminishes our position in the world. Fact.

      3. Isreal did murder a US citizen in the Gaza Flotilla raid in 2010. Fact.

      These are three examples of "sticking it to the US"

      And there were no consequences.

      •  This is a perfect illustration of how (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Don midwest, Code Monkey

        people who call themselves progressives can't or won't tell the difference between optics and substance, because it ruins the pretty narrative they've chosen to hitch their wagon to. Sure, any country that takes in Snowden will be humiliating the US, but the "damage" will be purely optical, not substantive. It won't cost lives or money. Whereas Israel's policies HAVE cost the US lots of lives and money. But we can't say that out loud, because...Israel is our friend!

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 04:07:45 PM PDT

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      •  You know (0+ / 0-)

        I agree with your points, but they are not "sticking it to the US."

        The U.S. has chosen to hitch itself to this particular horse.

        They spy on us, we spy on them.  It sucks, but it's not "sticking it" to us, as in doing something for the purpose of embarrassing us or putting us in our place.

        The way they treat the Palestinians is abhorrent, but again, it is not "sticking it" to the US.  

        Even killing a US citizen is not "sticking it to us" in this context.

        "Sticking it to us" is specifically referring to making a choice because it will make us look bad, tweak our nose, trip us up.  It's about countries who are opposed to us doing what they can poke us in the eye.

        Israel does a host of shitty stuff, but none of it is done in order to poke us in the eye or give us the finger.  Which is, yes, more about optics.  Maybe it's less important than reality, but it's what this discussion is about.

        However shitty Israel's actions are, DC is right on board with them and not humiliated by it at all.

        Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek. Barack Obama

        by delphine on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:32:39 AM PDT

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    •  Are you from Israel? No? Then please (5+ / 0-)

      stop telling me what to think, because I am. Israel has caused VASTLY more damage to the US than any of the countries Menendez referred to (which, in fact, the US has caused vast damage to). "The Terrorists" don't "hate us for our freedoms". They hate us for our actions and policies, among them the unconditional support of Israel and its actions and policies.

      If we're going to be talking about who's hurt the US, it's impossible to not include Israel in the discussion.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 04:04:47 PM PDT

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      •  I'm (0+ / 0-)

        talking about AIPAC, not Israel.

        You should know the difference.

        Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek. Barack Obama

        by delphine on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:25:27 AM PDT

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        •  AIPAC represents Israel's RW MIC (0+ / 0-)

          Which basically owns and runs Israel. There hasn't been a viable center and left in Israel for years. Practically speaking, AIPAC = Israel in the US.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:58:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The issue is the (0+ / 0-)

            paranoia over the supposedly huge power of AIPAC.

            I was accused of being a shill for AIPAC years ago (similarly for having a slightly nuanced view), and I had no idea what AIPAC even was.

            Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek. Barack Obama

            by delphine on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 10:57:04 AM PDT

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            •  It's not supposed, it's real and major (0+ / 0-)

              If you're actually casting doubt over this, it's even more pointless to debate you than I thought. AIPAC is the 800lb gorilla of foreign lobbyists.

              "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

              by kovie on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 02:14:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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