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View Diary: "They Like Sticking It To The United States" (330 comments)

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  •  Oh FFS. (0+ / 0-)

    This isn't a fucking hair color blog, an ice cream blog, or an underwear blog. Are you really this disconnected? You're actually cavilling about me raising political questions on a political blog about matters of political relevance, that's how far gone you are into the cult of personality around Snowden. You can't see it, you won't see it, so you really have no sense of how freaky it comes across to the uninitiated. And every encounter like this with a True Believer makes me exponentially less likely to join.

    I've wanted answers about the NSA since probably before you were actually aware of it--since a time when it didn't officially exist--but I am increasingly suspicious of Snowden as a qualified, rational, or reliable actor in the conversation, and I suppose it's actually unfair to Snowden that my opinion in that is negatively colored by those deifying him. But by all means, continue on with the worship. I'm just baffled as to why you think it'll convince anyone of Snowden's veracity. Sad, really.

    PW

    "No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream." --MLK

    by Progressive Witness on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 06:06:30 AM PDT

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    •  i am not trying or even hoping to convince you... (0+ / 0-)

      ...of anything. i agree 100% that there is zero chance of that happening. most of us who argue here do so (a) in hopes of convincing those who may be silently reading these comments or (b) just because its fun to discuss these things.

      i agree this is a political blog, but your interest is Snowden's politics is still irrelevant. Snowden is not the subject of this debate, even though thats what the government-media industrial complex is trying to make the debate about. Any reference to Snowden is distracting us from the real issue here, which is government spying on US citizens without warrants. we could have found out about the government spying because a laptop got misplaced somehow, or because of a congressional investigation, or because of journalists doing real journalism for once, or because the news were leaked by a hardcore leftist, a hardcore winger, a moderate person, a libertarian, etc. None of that is relevant to the real issue. the real issue is government spying.

      •  Yeah, much as you want to... (0+ / 0-)

        ...you don't have the standing to simply declare as off the table those aspects of the topic that you don't want to allow as part of the conversation, especially when those aspects bear on the veracity of the very source you're relying on and placing on a high pedestal. Funny how praise of Snowden is on-topic but questions about him? Verboten. Have fun trying to enforce that. Those "silently reading these comments" get to hear about that side of it too, as much as you might want to prevent that.

        PW

        "No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream." --MLK

        by Progressive Witness on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 12:29:49 PM PDT

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        •  im not trying to enforce anything (0+ / 0-)

          i am just telling you your concern about his politics is irrelevant and a distraction. you are of course free to disagree with me (have i ever said otherwise?). and when i say distraction, i mean "a distraction that provides cover to the statists running and abetting our tyrannical government".

          i have not placed Snowden on any pedestal. I dont CARE if he is a heroin addicted goat molester who pees in the shower. He has performed a great service to our nation, which is clearly independent of any other personal characteristics he may or may not have. I place great value in the information that he has provided us, and i dont see how his own personal characteristics have any bearing on that information. Are you saying that you think the powerpoint slides were fabricated? if so, dont you think the government would have said so already?

          •  Not at all. (0+ / 0-)

            But Wired pegged them pretty well:

            Crude vector art and bullet points leave too much to the imagination, even when it’s the most highly classified crude vector art and bullet points the public has ever seen.
            And the additional slide that supposedly was a smoking gun of an official back-door into FB, etc?
            But in context, that additional line adds little. The slide is intended to distinguish PRISM collection from the NSA’s raw internet wiretapping. It doesn’t address whether the collection is broad and automatic, or narrow and mediated by lawyers at the target companies, as subsequent reporting by other news outlets has indicated.
            I "collect information directly from Facebook's servers" every time I point a browser at it. That language doesn't demonstrate that a hardware or software backdoor has actually been installed, let alone what that backdoor does if it exists. Greenwald says he "won't public NSA tech methods" but unfortunately, without at least some crumbs of technical detail--and the slides we've seen aren't even crumbs--I have no way of knowing if the claims being made about a) the existence of a backdoor and b) how powerful it is are a lot of non-technical handwaving. There's a whole cottage industry of believing otherwise absent such hard proof, but I ain't on that bandwagon.

            Or is even the slightest skepticism founded in technical background "irrelevant"?

            PW

            "No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream." --MLK

            by Progressive Witness on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 01:10:02 PM PDT

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            •  thats why we need a special prosecutor (0+ / 0-)

              because right now we DONT know for certain the extent to which the government is spying on all of us without warrants. but the fact that a LOT of snowden haters here on this very site often state that he has revealed NOTHING NEW, is to me reason enough to suggest that the government has a lot of explaining to do.

          •  Whoops! Wired linky thing: (0+ / 0-)

            "No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream." --MLK

            by Progressive Witness on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 01:13:13 PM PDT

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