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View Diary: Bradley Manning: Worse Crime Than My Lai? (74 comments)

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  •  I didn't say you were. (4+ / 0-)
    I am not judging either, actually, nor supporting either.
    And this isn't about you.  Pragmatus' point is that the punishment doled out to William Calley, Jr. was completely inadequate to the crime he committed, whereas Bradley Manning is being subjected to indefinite torture for having revealed "classified" documents in a world in which the US manufactures its own enemies.

    I'm suggesting that it's not only Calley who's responsible for the sort of thing for which Calley, and only Calley, was punished -- and that when viewed against the landscape of routine US atrocities in Vietnam, Calley wasn't really all that unusual.  The injustice, then, was far greater than anything Pragmatus has revealed here.

    "It's not my fault reality is marxist." - Che Guevara

    by Cassiodorus on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 12:27:39 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I did not say it was about me... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      doc2, CS in AZ

      although one cannot tell from some of the comments that were offered in response, particularly lauding the practices of ridicule and shun.

      Every day people are under or over sentenced, wrongly convicted or acquitted. There are many variables. To pick one isolated case as a comparison should not, in my view, alter the way one looks at Manning and his crime and punishment.

      •  I think the problem that many (0+ / 0-)

        have here is that you're implying malicious motives on the part of Manning.   You're entitled to your opinions, but that's seemingly a very odd stance to take, given that the reason Manning was caught was because of confessing what was done and the motives for doing it to Adrian Lamo, who Manning (mistakenly) thought could be trusted to maintain secrecy.

        The motives are spelled out quite straightforwardly: in the course of the job Manning saw a lot of really troubling stuff that they felt the public had a right to know.  And Manning was in a rather self-destructive mode anyway, in the middle of a nervous breakdown largely stemming directly and indirectly from dealing with gender identity disorder, and was willing to accept the consequences for doing what was done (even death, if necessary) in order to let people know.

        You're implying malicious motives to Manning.  Have you read the Lamo logs?  They're packed full of stuff like this.

        (02:21:32 PM) bradass87: its sad

        (02:22:47 PM) bradass87: i mean what if i were someone more malicious

        (02:23:25 PM) bradass87: i could’ve sold to russia or china, and made bank?

        (02:23:36 PM) info@adrianlamo.com: why didn’t you?

        (02:23:58 PM) bradass87: because it’s public data

        (02:24:15 PM) info@adrianlamo.com: i mean, the cables

        (02:24:46 PM) bradass87: it belongs in the public domain

        (02:25:15 PM) bradass87: information should be free

        (02:25:39 PM) bradass87: it belongs in the public domain

        (02:26:18 PM) bradass87: because another state would just take advantage of the information… try and get some edge

        (02:26:55 PM) bradass87: if its out in the open… it should be a public good

        (02:27:04 PM) bradass87: do the

        (02:27:23 PM) bradass87: rather than some slimy intel collector

        I mean, we have the motives spelled out again and again.  So if you want to ascribe some other motives, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'd appreciate if you could explain why you feel that way.

        This is also the reason, BTW, which I don't automatically ascribe good motives to Snowden.  I'd like to believe that he has the same sort of motives as Manning, but there's an awful lot of contradictory stuff about him (just four years ago he wanted leakers shot in the balls, for example, and railed against people who leak; also, his background story doesn't completely check out, some of what he released was misrepresented, etc).  I really don't know what to think about him, so I'm in no rush to make him into some sort of martyr or folk hero.  I'm also not a big fan of people who run from the law, even if I think they were justified in what they did.

        But Manning is another case entirely.  And while some people go hyperbolic when describing his treatment, it certainly was abusive compared to normal prisoner treatment standards.  So we have a person who pretty demonstrably had good motives and pretty demonstrably has been treated badly.  So there's reason to be upset about this situation.

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