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View Diary: Former CIA Milan Office Chief Arrested (176 comments)

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  •  Huh, I didn't know that. (5+ / 0-)

    I certainly didn't know that he "fled" - - that would change my opinion right there. I was under the impression that he got re-assigned or something and refused to return.

    I don't like this - - I hope that they get accountability, absolutely, I hope they try him again, I would love to hear their evidence. Tough choice for the US, demand a trial and let all their dirty laundry be flaunted or be meek and throw him to the dogs.

    This will get interesting.

    Blessed are the peacemakers, the poor, the meek and the sick: The "party of Jesus" wouldn't invite him to their convention - fearing his "platform."

    by 4CasandChlo on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 01:30:17 PM PDT

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    •  suggest to read (4+ / 0-)

      the wikipedia page on this case.

      Be wary of the page too, it is very obviously of very uneven and disjointed writing. However, this was a very public affair all the time, there is nothing that was hidden about this trial. It played a major role, But it was politics from the beginning, since the Berlusconi government was essentially complicit. (Not unlike the current Euro complicity in the NSA affairs).

    •  Lady had bought his retirement villa in Italy (9+ / 0-)

      among many other things.

       The Biggest deal of his being captured and held after so many yrs goes to proven the weakening of American Power. People need to know that these charges stem from what Bush, Cheney and Rummy and their dog Aldo swore was legal, Rendition, or its better known name of Kidnapping. I don't think Lady is the only American still being looked. He is the one that lost his Home and dream retirement, and bank account if memory serves me right.
       He was kinda of like former VP Cheney and NeoCon Kissingger, still wanted for War Crimes in many countries including Canada and many euro countries.

      "the government's role should be to uplift, enlighten, educate and ennoble the citizen, not oppress them with taxation and intrusive laws," Gatewood Galbraith, Historic Marijuana Advocate, aka "The Last Free Man In America," RIP 1-3-12

      by SmileySam on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 02:09:21 PM PDT

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      •  Quibble (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Odysseus

        But first thanks for an excellent background summary. I know I was informed by it. Now...

        The Biggest deal of his being captured and held after so many yrs goes to proven the weakening of American Power. People need to know that these charges stem from what Bush, Cheney and Rummy and their dog Aldo swore was legal, Rendition, or its better known name of Kidnapping.
        Actually, it does no such thing so long as one other viable explanation exists. And that alternate explanation might read like this, this development goes to show how American power is not misused today as it was during the Bush 43 administration.
        •  A former CIA station chief being arrested by a (8+ / 0-)

          country that we have good relations with is a pretty big deal and really does show that our power has weakened. That's completely separate from the misuse of power during the Bush administration.

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 04:23:37 PM PDT

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          •  See above (0+ / 0-)

            I did not say it wasn't a big deal. I said so long as an alternative explanation exists, this Sherlock Holmesiam method of "proof" is not proof at all. Your response does not respond to that.

            •  You didn't give an alternate explanation (0+ / 0-)

              You talked about something that had nothing to do with what people are talking about. The fact that he was arrested while crossing the border to Panama has nothing to do with whether or not he was arrested or why, absolutely nothing. It's not an explanation, it's a statement. How does the fact that we don't do this anymore explain why he got arrested at the border?

              If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

              by AoT on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 04:47:55 PM PDT

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              •  I do not understand (0+ / 0-)
                •  You said (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Quicklund
                  Actually, it does no such thing so long as one other viable explanation exists. And that alternate explanation might read like this, this development goes to show how American power is not misused today as it was during the Bush 43 administration.
                  But that makes no sense at all. What does power not being used today have to do with this arrest? That wasn't an alternate explanation, it was a non-sequitor. Although I am glad that we don't still kidnap people to be tortured.

                  If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                  by AoT on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 04:59:57 PM PDT

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                  •  Ahh, OK (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    AoT, Odysseus

                    Let's rewind.

                    My quibble was with the conclusion that this event proves that "American Power" (not my capitalization) has waned. The subtext here is that nations such as Panama and Italy are no longer afraid of the US, that the US has been and is still today bullying other nations not to arrest Mr Lady, and this bullying is the only reason Mr Lady has not been arrested until today.

                    To which I countered this logic is faulty so long as a single other explanation exists. Specifically, I pointed out America could be as powerful today (or even more powerful) but is  more respectful of international law than was the previous administration.

                    If one want to lay out data indicating a relative decline in American power, my suggestion is to point in the decline of American economic activity during the Bush terms. From 2001 to 2009 American economic activity dropped from 32% of the global GNP to 24%.

                    The magnitude of that drop was the 2nd greatest in history since Europe and Japan were bombed flat during WW2. Only the collapse of the USSR in the 1990s resulted in such a large drop relative to the overall global economy. And even the most casual observer will agree the collapse of the USSR marked a dramatic loss of power.

                    This is a much more compelling argument than the original Sherlock Holmesian method of stating only one possible explanation exists, therefore Conclusion. A little additional thought reveals alternatives, therefore Conclusion Premature.

                    •  That makes more sense (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Quicklund

                      Thanks for the elaboration.

                      Given the actions in regards to Snowden and the rerouting of the plane of the president of Bolivia I think that saying we are more respectful of international law is probably incorrect. At the same time, that also goes to us still having just as much power.

                      I think that we'll have to wait and see if he's actually extradited to make any real statement about American power, although I think we can pretty definitively say it has declined relative to, for example, the eighties in South America. We're definitely seeing a decline in our position as a hyperpower.

                      If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                      by AoT on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 05:23:08 PM PDT

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      •  "Legal Redition" (0+ / 0-)

        "Words mean what we define them to mean," not what Merriam-Webster says.

        Reaganomics noun pl: belief that government is bad, that it can increase revenue by decreasing revenue, and unregulated capitalism can provide unlimited goods for unlimited people on a planet with finite resources.

        by FrY10cK on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 04:56:47 PM PDT

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    •  He has also been avoiding extradition (12+ / 0-)

      with the blessing of the US State Department.

      Funny how he gets more protection for kidnapping than we think Snowden should get from other countries for whistleblowing.

      Oh well, no escaping the long arm of Italian law.  At least the Italians didn't try to force down Air Force One to get Lady.

    •  All 26 CIA agents involved fled (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FrY10cK

      22 of them were convicted in absentia.

      There are few details of the arrest in various actual news reports, but a fair amount of background.

      BBC: Ex-CIA Milan chief held in Panama over cleric abduction

      WaPo: The story of how a Milan CIA station chief became a fugitive, now caught in Panama

      Two good retellings of Lady’s downfall and the incident that so angered Italian officials are a well-reviewed 2010 book A Kidnapping in Milan: The CIA on Trial, by journalist Steve Hendricks, and Matthew Cole’s exhaustive 2007 Esquire story.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 12:12:38 AM PDT

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