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View Diary: Gun-totin' property owner kills a guy trying to defend his cousin, who urinated on a gravel bar (374 comments)

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  •  I know of one such case from my hometown. (0+ / 0-)

    A mentally handicapped man held up a convenience store with a very convincing prop gun (back before they had to have orange tips). He made off with a pastry. When police caught up with him they ordered him to drop the gun and come out from under the porch he was hiding beneath; he did not comply, or not quickly enough, and so they shot him dead. Only then did anyone realize that his gun was a toy.

    "But there's one thing that gives every Marine the willies, and anyone saying otherwise is a liar. Drop pods. That shit is terrifying, son."

    by Shaviv on Tue Jul 23, 2013 at 07:58:06 PM PDT

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    •  Cops (0+ / 0-)

      We were talking about shootings by civilians. Shootings by cops are also a concern, but they are a different issue because cops are hired by the public to carry a gun and intervene in situations like that, screened, trained, and supervised. Contrast that with a civilian like Zimmerman who just decides he wants to be able to kill somebody if it seems like a good idea to him at the time, not hired by the public, with no screening, no training, and no supervision.

      •  Not sure cops are so different in that regard. nnt (0+ / 0-)

        "But there's one thing that gives every Marine the willies, and anyone saying otherwise is a liar. Drop pods. That shit is terrifying, son."

        by Shaviv on Tue Jul 23, 2013 at 09:26:09 PM PDT

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      •  Cops and gun training (0+ / 0-)

        Most cops have virtually zero training in the use of their firearms...I was an instructor in a fairly large city's police academy, the syllabus on this subject covered one afternoon at the range and a bit of target practice.  Zimmerman did NOT 'decide' to kill someone...if you know he did, you are an accessory to murder for not letting the State know about it...otherwise you have just pulled that opinion out of your ass.

        •  Sure He Did (0+ / 0-)

          Zimmerman didn't drop the gun.  It didn't accidentally go off. Zimmerman wasn't aiming at a paper target and missed.  Zimmerman wasn't cleaning the gun thinking it was unloaded.

          Zimmerman loaded his gun with dum dum bullets, pointed his gun directly at Martin's heart from a few inches away, and pulled the trigger on purpose.  The only question was whether the intentional killing was justified or not, or whether there was at least a reasonable doubt about whether the intentional killing was justified or not.

      •  The only difference between a cop and a civilian (0+ / 0-)

        in that situation is that the cops will have more paperwork to do, but will probably fire slightly sooner.

        If you shoot a guy trying to rob you and he had a 'gun' in his hand, even if that gun turns out upon further investigation to not be a gun, or an inoperable gun, it's pretty much an open-and-shut self-defense case, to the point where you may not even be detained for more than a few hours by the police, even in a duty-to-retreat state, depending on how much evidence there is to back up your story.

        The whole needing-to-be-omniscient thing for a 'good' use of lethal force in self-defense is just bullshit.  "The guy pulled out a gun so I shot him!" "Aah, but he forgot to replace the firing pin when he was cleaning it!  It never would have gone off, even though the guy thought it would have!  MURDERER!"

    •  Seriously? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shaharazade, caul, splashy

      He wouldn't come out so they killed him?  Where was that so I can avoid that state.  Jeebus, you have to look up every friggin' law for every town, municipality, state etc. just to know if it's safe to walk down the street.

      The priest said, "Today's sermon is called 'Liars', but first I have a question. How many of you have read Chapter 66 in Matthew?" Nearly every hand went up. "You're just the group I need to speak to," the priest said. "There's no such chapter."

      by Back In Blue on Tue Jul 23, 2013 at 09:11:36 PM PDT

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      •  A nice college town in NJ... (0+ / 0-)

        Literally across the river from Rutgers.

        Keep in mind that the cops believed he was armed. It's still a problem but you can understand a bit more  Ofof their motivation.

        "But there's one thing that gives every Marine the willies, and anyone saying otherwise is a liar. Drop pods. That shit is terrifying, son."

        by Shaviv on Tue Jul 23, 2013 at 09:24:17 PM PDT

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        •  No, I can't. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shaharazade, caul

          They could keep themselves protected, keep the area clear and just wait the dude out while they try to figure out what's really going on with the guy.  Even if he was armed, what would he do?  He'd be killed as soon as he tried anything.  Even the Boston PD managed not to kill that fucker in the boat after all that he did, including actually being involved in a gun/bomb fight with police.

          This is simply fucking lazy, can't be bothered, shoot the asshole with the nerve to question our authority bullshit.

          Unfortunately, I still have to go to NJ because my mother-in-law lives there.  

          The priest said, "Today's sermon is called 'Liars', but first I have a question. How many of you have read Chapter 66 in Matthew?" Nearly every hand went up. "You're just the group I need to speak to," the priest said. "There's no such chapter."

          by Back In Blue on Tue Jul 23, 2013 at 10:03:27 PM PDT

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      •  Because he had a gun... (0+ / 0-)

        ...or at least something that they had to assume was a live, loaded, and ready firearm, because it looked like one.  Plus, the commenter's comment isn't clear on whether he didn't come out or attempted to come out without dropping the weapon.  

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