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View Diary: If you aren't doing anything wrong, why are you afraid of being spied on? (77 comments)

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  •  It's not if you don't have something to hide. . . (11+ / 0-)

    . . .it's the degrees of separation from those that might.

    Are you a friend of Glen Greenwald on Facebook? Or a friend of a friend? Then you're only two or three degrees of separation from Ed Snowden. Your stuff is being collected.

    Ever went to Dartmouth, or Bunker Hill CC recently, or know someone who has? Then you're only two or three degrees from either Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev. Your stuff is being collected.

    Your stuff is being collected.

    You can be pure as the driven snow, but I guarantee you that if you dug down, you're probably no more than a handshake away from a violent murderer. That's just the way statistics work. And because of that, you're associated. Your stuff is being collected.

    •  I have a brother-in-law (4+ / 0-)

      from Morocco.  He and my sister work in foreign countries filled with swarthy people.  They also work for the government.  I call and email them frequently.  I have other friends who post on my FB wall in Arabic from war-torn/threatened areas.

      We've known for years that our data is collected.  Back in the early 2000s, I used to end all of my emails and phone conversations with the word "jihad!" just to fuck with them.

      I've started writing a nice, quick hand-written note to my friends at the NSA every time I send snail mail.  



      Can you call yourself a real liberal if you aren't reading driftglass?

      by CJB on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 05:58:07 PM PDT

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      •  My admiration for you just went off the scale CJB! (0+ / 0-)

        I wrote the following and hesitated to post it, but your post made my day! I know you're busy today, but I hope you see this... THANKS - John


        This comment was sparked by the "treated like children" comments above.

        If you look closely at the fine print language written into many statutes and laws over the last 50 years or so, they have become so convoluted and even obscure that almost any behavior, speech or discourse that someone in power decides is "suspect" in any way, can lead to prosecution of some kind, or worse.

        Like traffic stops - IMHO, if they WANT you, they have a rule somewhere that allows them to GET you, for some oft-minor offense, be it a mile over the limit, a non-signal turn, hanging anything on the rear-view mirror, pulling you over "on suspicion", etc. It's no different, if you align yourself as we do, against the elites - all it takes is to be linked with "subversives" who advocate free speech, instead of sheep who let the government put into place whatever "anti-terrorist" measures they want - if they want you, they can detain you, and worse.

        Not that I'm paranoid! I sign my real name to legislative efforts, don't look over my shoulder or stifle my tongue, but I am a veteran of the 60's anti-war movement, and have stared down the barrels of loaded weapons aimed by pissed off cops, so it's not like I'm not on a list somewhere. I don't care - I have always stood against tyranny, we are on the verge of tyranny again, and I'm still willing to give my life fighting for our freedom.

        But it's no longer about actually being charged and convicted of a "crime against the New Order" either - like a traffic stop, you may not ever go to jail, but the hassle and expense of defense or compliance can be ruinous on its' own, which is now another weapon they happily use. Like the rampant use of SWAT tactics against suspected "criminals", which has increased a thousand-fold over the last 20 years in nearly EVERY police jurisdiction across the country. Imagine the repercussions if someone merely called in "suspicion of wrongful activity" on you, and SWAT batters your door down, ransacks your house in a search, processes you, lets it all be "publicized" using your name and the "suspicion" as rationale - and then explain it was a "mistake" - even without being formally charged you could be ruined, or worse, killed in a  botched raid. It has happened...

        And there's no protection against it anymore, despite innocence.

        I don't fear the NSA knowing what "subversive" speech I espouse (read that again, you anti-American bastards, because that's what you are when you spy on us without cause!!) simply because it's not wrong or illegal, by any measure; it's FREE SPEECH, after all. No, I fear what has come along WITH it, an entire nationwide apparatus devoted to ENFORCEMENT, weapon and tactic heavy, based on military style training, by Americans, against Americans.

        This is no longer just about warrantless spying, it's about also putting an entire structure into place that can, has, and WILL be used against people who disagree with the "party line", in the very country that began with protests against tyranny! Even without being guilty of an actual crime.

        I think this has gone WAY beyond being treated like children, sadly; it's become dissenters and advocates of truly free speech who are once again considered criminals, and treated as such, plus a nationwide quasi-military style enforcement mechanism that can stifle dissent, protest, and free speech (and whistleblowers) anywhere "they" want, now and in the future.

        Anti-terrorism, my ass. "They" are the paranoid ones. We are the ones telling them how WRONG they are.

        "When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

        by CodeTalker on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 11:50:56 AM PDT

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        •  Hi, John. (0+ / 0-)

          Just found this.  I completely concur and couldn't have said it better.  From the out-of-control surveillance, to this:  " a nationwide quasi-military style enforcement mechanism that can stifle dissent, protest, and free speech (and whistle blowers) anywhere "they" want, now and in the future," it is all meant to intimidate and thwart.  

          Fortunately,  I think we've reached the fear/anger tipping point, even outside the blogosphere bubble.  If it takes surveillance under a Dem president to get the wingers to notice what they ignored under Republicans, I am forced to celebrate the evolution.

          Can you call yourself a real liberal if you aren't reading driftglass?

          by CJB on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 10:21:34 AM PDT

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    •  how about me? I don't facebook. Now isn't that (0+ / 0-)

      sort of weird for a new grandma? what's wrong with me? who am I avoiding by not giving info? why won't I participate in the daily commerce that keeps the ads and money flowing? what am I doing when I'm not facebooking? hmmmm. better go see.

      now I just was writing some stuff here that I deleted- did google save my first thought that I had second thoughts about? I've heard they keep every keystroke...

      We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

      by nuclear winter solstice on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 05:10:22 AM PDT

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