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View Diary: NYT Lead: House Dems “Increasingly Unified” As “Momentum Builds Against N.S.A. Surveillance” (295 comments)

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  •  Details of the bills matter. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Reggid, emelyn, Tony Situ, Fogiv

    Framing this as "Democrats change their position" is misleading.

    This is just the ordinary legislative process. Not everything is about this team and that team.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 09:07:23 AM PDT

    •  What was the downside of using passage (6+ / 0-)

      of Amash/Conyers to jumpstart the privacy vs. security debate, since this "flawed" amendment was doomed in the Senate anyway...

      if Mr. Obama were serious about having a genuine debate at all?

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 09:24:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ask the people who voted against it. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Reggid, Tony Situ

        I'm not inside the heads of individual Congressmen. I don't know what particulars they disliked about that bill, or like better about this proposal.

        I'm just saying, while you look at a bill as just "jumpstaring a debate," the people actually charged with designing and passing legislation look at what is actually in the bill and rate it as policy. Their actions aren't just about lining up on a "pro-" and "anti-" side on a philosophical debate.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 09:29:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Because it wasn't a starting point (0+ / 0-)

        How is effectively causing the immediate end to the entire phone metadata collection program a "starting point"?

        •  Why do you want to protect the spying (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          so badly?  We got along for a long time without our info being snooped.  We can do it again?

          You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

          by Johnny Q on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 12:21:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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