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  •  I think Hillary will. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude, Hoghead99, scamperdo

    Whether she delivers is another thing, but she seemed to get more and more populist during the primaries last time and I think it will stick.

    •  it is not... (4+ / 0-)

      ..her nature.  It would be disingenuous for her to try to run on a populist platform.  She is just part of another dynastic family now much like the Bushies.   That is why I had such high hope for Obama since he wasn't from a political family.

      We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

      by delver rootnose on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 05:35:01 AM PDT

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        •  The big difference (0+ / 0-)

          Both of those had personal tragedies, often many of them. The same kinds of tragedies that every family has.

          They also had the realization that the fact that they had money made those tragedies easier to deal with.

          They also realized that having govt help at those times of tragedy wouldn't cost that much and would make things easier for EVERYBODY, even those who hadn't suffered tragedy.

          As opposed to families like the bushes or the romney's, who never seemed to get that concept at all.

      •  HRC-unlike Bushies-helped start Clinton dynasty (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bob Friend, stevenaxelrod

        As much as I hated her vote enabling the Iraq war, and am nervous about her and Bill's tendency to triangulate, we have often nominated worse Presidential candidates than I expect Hillary to be this time.

        •  What could be worse than the Clintons' record? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Heart of the Rockies

          For Democrats, that is.  Not only is Hillary no populist, she's straight from Wall Street.  

          She'll give speeches like she did last week, courageously saying pretty things about non-controversial topics (voting rights), sounding all courageous and of-the-people-ish.  But behind this will be the machine.  The same machine that gave us Rubin, Nafta, deregulation, outsourcing, Blackwater, etc.  

          •  But has Obama been different than this? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Geenius at Wrok

            The problem of Democratic Presidents siding with Wall Street (and the NSA etc.) is bigger than Hillary or Bill.  And some of the threats we now face from Republicans are even more urgent and damaging than those from the Rubin mentality.

            If she achieves payback against the vast Right-wing conspiracy, runs up a big margin in demographics that were less accepting of Obama, and has coat-tails in swing Congressional districts, that could be a pretty good result for Progressives, although not as good as a more- Progressive winning nominee.  

            A more-Progressive candidate unifying Progressive voters in competition against Hillary would add much value to the primary process.

            •  Agree we need a good progressive candidate in the (0+ / 0-)

              primaries.  But that person needs to beat Clinton.  She will never be a Progressive or even a liberal.

              Obama has been different than this, imo, though many here will no doubt disagree.  Obama compromises and ignores some big areas (FDA, NSA, etc) and many of the results under him have been disappointing, but the Clintons sell out gleefully and energetically.  

              •  Obama/Clinton comparisons; who cd beat HRC? (0+ / 0-)

                I did not follow Bill's policies closely enough to compare all of their substance with that of Obama's, but it seems to me that:

                1. Bill never had the type of opportunity that Obama had, when the banks needed to be bailed out, to cut back their disproportionate influence.  

                2. More broadly, W managed to discredit Republicanism in the eyes of swing voters much more emphatically than any of his predecessors, but Obama failed to take much advantage of this.

                What Progressive could beat the now grandmotherly former SOS Hillary? Which one would be willing to go all out in trying?

                (I assume that Russ Feingold has never been forgiven by Clintons for breaking ranks on Bill's impeachment, but Russ does not seem to have sustained, if he ever had, an appetite for campaigning).

                •  Good points. I don't know if there's someone (0+ / 0-)

                  ready & willing to go all out.  Others here know more about progressive Dems across the country than me.

                  I watched Warren campaign here in MA last year.  She was a tornado energywise.  But it'd surprise me if she was interested or ready.

                  Wyden's getting a lot of good press over the NSA, but I don't know much about him otherwise.  Who else, DKers?  

                  We can't just let Hillary assume her way to the nomination.  And she might be just good enough to win it and lose the general.

      •  One Clinton presidency (3+ / 0-)

        does not make a dynasty.
        There's Bill, his wife and their daughter. No uncles, nephews, cousins, sons or fathers.  

        Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

        by skohayes on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 06:00:09 AM PDT

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    •  I doubt that Hillary will run (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Stude Dude, newfie

      If she does and wins, I doubt that she will have any programs or advisors that are different from the last two Dem Administrations.

      And if she does, I doubt the party leadership and establishment will support those programs anyway.

      It is simply impossible to get a progressive program out of a party that is itself not progressive.  (shrug)

      •  I'd amend your last sentence. (0+ / 0-)

        Our party has plenty of progressives.  We simply don't have the power in the party.  And we all saw what happened to Howard Dean when he emphasized the grassroots and many  progressive policies.  He was roughly shoved to the sidelines.

        •  He was very good in issues (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          But not a great candidate and made major errors during his run. Lets not rewrite history.

          "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" — Upton Sinclair

          by Greg Dworkin on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 02:52:38 PM PDT

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          •  The candidate favored (0+ / 0-)

            by the establishment in 2004--John Kerry--made plenty of mistakes, and we lost an election we should have won.  The ad with the wind surfing characterized him and his campaign perfectly.  Blowing in the wind.

            Would Dean have bested Bush?  Who knows, but probably not.  The fact that Dean was savaged by the press, with a clearly coordinated set of attacks and demeaning columns, articles and op ed pieces in the NYT, didn't help.  He could claim inexperience.  What was Kerry's excuse?

            Only slightly off topic, but I doubt Obama would have won in 2008 if it hadn't been for Dean's 50 state strategy, which Carville and others ridiculed then used.

            •  completely agree about the last para (0+ / 0-)

              running DNC was dean's calling. But to blame the "establishment" for Dean's own inability to run a winning campaign rewrites history. One can come to that realization while ignoring Kerry entirely. Dean's flaws had nothing to do with Kerry and who supported Kerry. They were his own problem, his own making.

              Put differently, platforms don't win elections, candidates do. Or don't. Suggesting that somehow TPTB won't allow Dean ignores Dean's inability to win key primaries.

              "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" — Upton Sinclair

              by Greg Dworkin on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 04:37:03 AM PDT

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