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View Diary: On the false equivalence between "Obama rox" and "Obama sux" (295 comments)

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  •  Well, FWIW, I am also not denouncing him in toto (9+ / 0-)

    Yes, there are some, even many things this administration has done right. And, for the record, since many of his fans seem to think if you're upset with many of his policies, then you're just like the Republicans (a Paulbot, etc.), of COURSE he's better in the main than a Teabagger Repug.

    So I think we may be closer in principle in acknowledging the finer strokes, even as we may disagree on the implications of the broader, sum total of benefit or damage that this administration is bestowing on the country. I want to make this about policies, not loyalty to politicians, and I appreciate that you do too.

    "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

    by Kombema on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 05:02:48 PM PDT

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    •  Yes. (12+ / 0-)

      I agree. And to boot, the "firebagger" remarks are odious. So are the "authoritarian surveillance stooges" or however it's phrased. The reality is far more complex than the insults.

      I would just really like to have more conversations here like this one, as opposed to variations on a pointless theme of counting who rated what comment with which sinister motive. These don't just offend our collective intelligence, bad enough on its own, they create divisions that we later need to heal.

      I've seen many such piefights since first signing up here in 2006, so there is precedent, but this one seems to go deeper than its predecessors. Hence my concern.

      Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

      by MBNYC on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 05:23:27 PM PDT

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      •  Now there's a sig line for someone to steal: (8+ / 0-)

        Reality is far more complex than the insults.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 05:42:41 PM PDT

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        •  With proper credit (6+ / 0-)

          licensed merchandise could be not far behind. Screenplay, TV deals, Broadway, maybe a fashion line. Definitely a fragrance.

          Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

          by MBNYC on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 05:48:37 PM PDT

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        •  Some parts of reality are. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kombema, poligirl, kharma

          Some are not. One of the progressions I've been noting with horror over the past several years is how politics is getting simpler. That's always a bad thing. Politics when decent, or halfway decent, is complex and nuanced. Politics when simple is a boot in the face.

          Or to quote Watership Down, "These are my teeth so this is my cowslip. These are my claws so this is my burrow."

          Might makes right is real simple, and that's where politics has been going, and it's been speeding up recently. Some people see it; some people don't; some of the people who don't verbally whale on the people who do. Some of the people who do retaliate.

          That's what I see.

          Ou sont les neigedens d'antan?

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 07:16:26 PM PDT

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        •  Interesting to note that at least two (5+ / 0-)

          front pagers commented in this diary, which is at minimum clearly a thoughtful one, but neither found it worthy of a respectful "rec'd for discussion" or even a tip.

          In my mind, that plays well into the diary's point about where we stand in relation to each other here on dkos.

          I suppose neither of them wanted to be perceived as reccing the thesis to those who would find that distasteful. I suppose it's understandable, given the dynamics here.

          But maybe this is just me, and how my mind works. I tend to notice these peripheral things.

          In this regard neither the attitude of "Obama rox" nor the nonexistent unity of "Obama sux" will suffice.  We might start to ditch the "Obama rox/ Obama sux" nonsense by clarifying where we in fact stand, rather than obscuring our positions with side-arguments.

          "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

          by ZhenRen on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 09:52:17 PM PDT

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    •  Disagree - very few mind mere policy disagreement (9+ / 0-)

      It's not mere disagreement over "finer" strokes that fuels the schism, as you suggest.  I would humbly offer that it is the overwrought rhetoric coming from the "sux" that puts the "rox" in a defensive posture.

      Does this sound like disagreement over "finer strokes" to you?:

      1.  Obama is a liar and a fraud;

      2.  Obama is a lying POS;

      3.  Obama has presided over nothing but lies and broken promises;

      4.  Obama is a traitor destroying America;

      5.  Obama is shredding the Constitution and ruining the country;

      6.  Obama is a tyrant and a dictator who deserves to be impeached;

      7.  Obama is a fascist determined to destroy our freedom;

      8.  Obama is trying to destroy our rights;

      9.  Obama is much worse than Bush;

      10. Obama is a murderer;

      11. Obama is going through his critics' records to find dirt on them;

      12. Obama intends on using drone strikes against Americans.

      These are not terms culled from right-wing hate radio.  This is rhetoric from the "sux" element.  Go into any recent NSA diary and you will still find virtually all of this rhetoric and worse getting highly-rec'd, particularly rhetoric of the "Obama is a liar, is worse than Bush, and deserves to be impeached" variety.

      So, you'll pardon me if I do not chalk the current disagreements up to mere differences as to the "fine strokes."  A large contingent here has gone off the rails in their express hatred for Obama.

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