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  •  Apparently not enough people to actually (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theatre goon, ER Doc, gerrilea

    pass some of the more onerous gun control laws.

    If I never changed my mind (which is what I'm reading you as saying there) then my stance on UBCs didn't change, right?

    Firearms are never toys by the way.

    Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

    by KVoimakas on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 06:30:12 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Man-toys for you to be all dangerous and serious. (0+ / 0-)

      Because you are afraid you are not.

      Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

      by OregonOak on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 07:56:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  *snort* (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theatre goon

        Perhaps you'd like to talk to any of the people who I'm friends with on DK to see if I consider myself dangerous and serious. Or hell, the people I met at NN11 when I was actually armed.

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 09:42:48 AM PDT

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        •  You boast about being armed? (0+ / 0-)

          That is interesting. And although I hate to say it, it kind of proves my point. You need the attention of seeming to be a dangerous man, so you not only arm yourself, you TELL everyone you are armed.

          I dont even boast about being unarmed. I just let it be. Wish my gun-bearing friends could learn about humility and walking quietly in the world.

          Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

          by OregonOak on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 11:59:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Actually no, I didn't tell anyone I was armed (0+ / 0-)

            until some time later here on DK when someone brought up something where saying I was armed at NN11 was relevant.

            In everyday life, there are very few people who know I'm armed. I'm semi-anonymous on here so I mention it with no problems. At work, only a bare handful know I carry. Including the CEO (figured that'd be a smart idea). My wife and family know along with some very close friends.

            That's it. I'd much prefer people didn't know I was carrying, which is what I say when people as if I am.

            Yes, I lie. Unless it's a LEO.

            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

            by KVoimakas on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 12:12:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That is to your credit then. (0+ / 0-)

              Many gun owners I have known both here and in Alaska cannot WAIT to list every known fact and factiod about the gun(s) they are currently wearing, how they wear them, why they wear them, what they will do with them given a chance and where they will go to do it. WAAAAYYYYYYYY TOOO much Information. (WTMI) The discreet bulge in the chest area or the  groin area is really all it takes unless the aforesaid gun owner wants to be labeled a Putz.

              Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

              by OregonOak on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 02:15:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  This is called Self-Awareness, by the way. (0+ / 0-)

      Its a Progressive idea. We feel certain ways when we are growing up, and its possible to get stuck in a time period of feeling out of nostalgia, desire for certainty, or a feeling of power we thought we needed. Gun owners, and I am one of those who felt this way at 14, wrap themslves in these deep feelings and then construct elaborate rational arguments for why it is right and natural to do so. The NRA is paid to do this psychological work for you.

      But when you become self-aware, you understand that a feeling is not a good enough reason to cling so tightly to an idea which is proving really harmful when spread out among the fearful population. Still, your "reasons" remain. The feeling comes first, the reasons, the rationalizations, second.

      That is what ER Doctor does not even understand. He thinks his Reasons are all he needs. He does not get the fact that we all reason from emotion first, and that a self aware person admits this, and puts it into the rhetorical equation. Ethos, Logos, Pathos.. two of the three are feelings, not fact.

      Time to start changing your feelings as you did on the issue of seat belts. You didnt like someone telling you what to do for your own good, but eventually you realized it was right. This is the same thing. You have the intelligence to become self aware and join the moral side, the side which will win this debate and the policy which will follow as soon as Scalia and Alito and Roberts are gone from the bench by way of humiliating retirement.

      Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

      by OregonOak on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 08:05:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, I wore my seatbelt anyway. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theatre goon

        Disarming people, removing their ability for self defense and increasing restrictions on a civil right isn't the moral side. I have no idea where you get that.

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 09:43:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  From Western Civilization and the Hard Lessons (0+ / 0-)

          of forming civil democratic societies. From the hard and long slog out of tribalism, monarchy and individual warlordism. Do not make a holy object of any graven image. (Any technology created by man) Turn the other cheek if a man strikes you (Pacifism in the face of violence will change the violent most of the time) Do not imply violence by way of fearsome weapons (Life is the most sacred value) I could go on. There are literally hundreds of ethical arguments in Western Civilization which place concern for your fellow man above individual want or even need. To deny this is to deny our society's peaceful ascent. Guns were a fly in the ointment for slaveowners paranoid of losing control in 1790. We need to treat the Second Amendment as a sop.. a giveaway.. to the Slaveonwing States who could not be persuaded to join the Union without assurance that they could still hunt down slaves (blacks and browns) and indentured servants (whites)  I teach Western Civilization and Composition, and understand these ideas. Unfortunately the Conservatives in Legislatures hate these courses, so they are no longer required for ER Doctors or anyone else. We do not understand the principles which formed this great wealth and great freedom, and we will lose it unless we teach it again, and are believed.

          Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

          by OregonOak on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 10:13:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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