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View Diary: What If You Pulled Back the Curtain and Found a Real Wizard? (181 comments)

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  •  "Search" is relevant constitutionally . . however (5+ / 0-)

    with respect to the felony aspect of FISA violations,  "surveilance and interception of" electronic communication without a warrant triggers criminal sanctions of 5 years in prison and a $10,000.00 fine.

    It doesn't say they have to read it or review it - if they intercept it (communication of American citizens without a warrant)- that is a per se violation of the criminal law. And unless someone can provide some authority otherwise - having the meta data means the communication has been surveilled and intercepted, does it not?

    Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

    by bobdevo on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 12:28:58 PM PDT

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    •  No, I don't believe the two are equivalent - it is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WB Reeves, Tortmaster

      possible to get the metadata without getting the contents of the communications.



      Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

      by Wee Mama on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 12:51:05 PM PDT

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      •  It's possible, but that's not how they're doing it (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        congenitalefty, Tortmaster, kharma

        according to what's been printed, they have the ability to look at the stuff later - ergo - it's being captured, ergo it's been intercepted via surveillance ergo it's a felony.

        Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

        by bobdevo on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 01:14:09 PM PDT

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      •  Metadata is data. Trying to make the two levels (6+ / 0-)

        of our somehow materially different is sophist baloney.  My metadata tells anyone who has it who I converse with where I am and how often I go on various sites, what I buy, and from whom, to whom I owe money, and where I bank.  And that is without opening or reading any of my communications.  A screen shot of my mail application on any day tells the person who has that more than if I had a facebook account, (I do not)  When you read the contract that you enter into with the phone companies, the cable companies and the internet, they make promises about protecting the security of your data, and limit what it can be used for.  Of course, these contractual undertakings have been broken by the providers in fundamental ways.  Does that make any claim of a right to privacy unreasonable on its face.  Does Katz v. U.S vitiate the Fourth Amendment?

        Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

        by StrayCat on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 03:49:01 PM PDT

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      •  They are getting everything.....they are not just (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Choco8, Tortmaster, kharma, Kevskos

        getting meta data.   NSA computers at ATT datacenters take custody of everything, not just meta data.

        It isn't just meta data.

        They are getting everything.

        When they talked about total information awareness during the Bush Administration, they weren't kidding.

    •  And as I jkeep pointing out, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      congenitalefty, bobdevo, Tortmaster

      former Security officials have stated that once the meta data is collected, then it can be re-constituted. It is not merely that they know I called my uncle in Albuquerque back in May of 2009 - they can re-constitute the entire conversation.

      Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

      by Truedelphi on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 01:18:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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