Skip to main content

View Diary: ‘You Failed to Break the Spirit of Bradley Manning’: An Open Letter to President Obama (217 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Heh. Okay, there were only 500,000 extra document (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ord avg guy, duhban

    that Manning released.

    You really got me there, sport.  

    Like I said, American patriot and truth-telling hero Dan Ellsberg disagrees with you,
    I'd be surprised he'd be so dense as to say that releasing an extra half mil of documents is ok, because neither you nor he seems to note just how indiscriminate Manning was.

    I don't blame you.  It's a fact that you can't minimize or explain.

    I googled "confirmation bias" and Daily Kos raided my house! And and and smashed my hard drives! Ask CNN, it's all truthy!

    by Inland on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 12:23:34 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  It's not being noted by anyone (6+ / 0-)

      here in this diary (or by Ellsberg in general), because it's not relevant enough to note against the bigger fact that Manning was tortured and imprisoned for trying to do the right thing.

      And this administration obviously agrees that exposing war crimes was not the right thing to do. There's plenty of evidence for that which all your precious spin about "the number of documents Manning released" will never disguise.  

      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

      by lunachickie on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 12:32:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So let me get this straight: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        duhban

        you're saying that if Manning had NOT revealed any war crimes, he wouldn't have been accused?  

        Huh.  

        Well, whatever.  Fact is, the military court got to hear all about Private Manning's intentions.  It's why he got thirty five years and not ninety.  

        I googled "confirmation bias" and Daily Kos raided my house! And and and smashed my hard drives! Ask CNN, it's all truthy!

        by Inland on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 12:41:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          4kedtongue, Johnny Q, quagmiremonkey

          Let me say it again, since your usage of whatever in this instance obviously demonstrates that you'd rather this inconvenient fact simply go away:

          And this administration obviously agrees that exposing war crimes was not the right thing to do.

          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

          by lunachickie on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 12:57:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, just keep repeating it's obvious. (0+ / 0-)

            Because that's what makes something obvious.

            Not you actually linking to someone agreeing with the proposition, because that's not obvious.  No, only you saying it's obvious makes it obvious.

            Obviously.

            I googled "confirmation bias" and Daily Kos raided my house! And and and smashed my hard drives! Ask CNN, it's all truthy!

            by Inland on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 03:11:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Like I said... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DeadHead, mrkvica, Jim Domenico, Johnny Q

      ...I stand with the American patriot, Dan Ellsberg.  He followed these events a lot more closely than you or I.  He's spoken about his support for Manning.  He released documents which were classified at a higher security clearance designation than did Manning, during a time when we were at war. Thousands of pages.

      I love how you speak of Manning's indiscriminate release of information.  Do you know what indiscriminate means?  Maybe you could use that word when referring to how certain documents are classified in the first place.  Or how some in our military kill innocent people -- and get away with it.  Or how our political leaders lie and hide all that incriminates them in war crimes.  There is no real sense of perspective or proportion in your comments.  

      So, if it were all or nothing, I'd accept all based on what the pertinent documents revealed about our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.  You see, what Manning revealed to the world confirmed my objections to entering into wars in those countries in the first place.

      I do blame you.  These are facts that you are constantly attempting to gloss over by ridiculously focusing on and exaggerating the rather minor infractions of Manning.

      all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

      by 4kedtongue on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 12:44:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Deference to authority is great (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        duhban

        except when it makes you refuse to address a simple point, or pretend to not know what "indiscriminate" means.  

        ridiculously focusing on and exaggerating the rather minor infractions of Manning.
        Well, it's a diary about Manning's sentence, but if you'd rather focus on "war crimes", you might start with naming them and describing them in a diary of your own, rather than offhandly state that they occurred in a way that pretends I have to defer to you in the slavish way you defer to what you think Ellsberg thinks.

        I googled "confirmation bias" and Daily Kos raided my house! And and and smashed my hard drives! Ask CNN, it's all truthy!

        by Inland on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 12:49:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's not my job to... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DeadHead, mrkvica, Jim Domenico, Johnny Q

          ...slavishly submit to your asinine suggestion.

          Educate yourself, Inland:

          http://www.theguardian.com/...

          http://www.theguardian.com/...

          And as far as Manning's sentence goes, chew on this:

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

          Deference to authority?  Do you actually read what you write before you post it?  You must realize that it's YOU who defers to authority, not me.

          all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

          by 4kedtongue on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 12:57:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, it's wrong to defer to authority (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TLS66

            if your a PFC in the army.  Bad bad bad bad.

            It's wrong to defer to the findings of a court martial.  

            Now, deferring to the Guardian....good good good good.

            And "it's good enough for Daniel Ellsberg it's good enough for me" isn't slavish submission.  

            Given that you've already loaded your deference in a way that shows you've got no interest in anything other than your own biases, I don't really care for your research project trying to find something you'll listen to.

            I googled "confirmation bias" and Daily Kos raided my house! And and and smashed my hard drives! Ask CNN, it's all truthy!

            by Inland on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 03:14:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Wow. Haha. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DeadHead

              The links are to the Iraq / Afghan War Logs.  They can also be read in The New York Times and Der Speigel.

              Manning, like ALL whistleblowers, broke the law.  I haven't questioned the legitimacy of the prosecution.  I have questioned, repeatedly, Manning's treatment while in custody AND what I consider to be, when put in the perspective of the crimes Manning exposed, the excessive sentence meted out.

              Deference to an 'authority' like Ellsberg (translated:  EXPERT) is a little different than deference to Authority -- the boot-licking variety you engage in.

              all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

              by 4kedtongue on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 03:30:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Let's be perfectly blunt: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DeadHead, 4kedtongue

      If Manning released 699,999 classified documents showing government crimes and 1 classified document that didn't, you would be saying the exact same thing. Your transparent condemnation of Manning (not to mention Snowden) is fully and exclusively rooted in the personality and political party of the occupant of the White House at the time Manning sent the files to wikileaks.

      •  Is "blunt" the new word for "making stuff up"? (0+ / 0-)

        Yeah, I'd tell you why your wrong, but you've already shown that you've got your reason to ignore facts and logic prepped and ready to go.  

        I googled "confirmation bias" and Daily Kos raided my house! And and and smashed my hard drives! Ask CNN, it's all truthy!

        by Inland on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 03:17:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Meh... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DeadHead

        ...everyone knows that only those who question authority have agendas.  Those who submit to authority and defend draconian sentencing don't.  The point is:  Look, Manning was tried and convicted and sentenced.  The system worked, just like The President predicted it would.

        Of course, the crimes exposed by the convicted felon but not pursued in the manner that Manning was pursued aren't crimes at all.  Murder, graft, cover-ups, nothing more than evidence used to secure the only conviction that matters.

        The entire argument made by Inland is premised on the volume of the dump -- not the quality of what was revealed.  Even Obama's former Republican Sec. of Defense said that the dump amounted to little more than embarrassment for the U.S.  But right-wingers in Obama's administration have to be out right-winged by loyal Democrats right here at The Daily Kos.

        all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

        by 4kedtongue on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 04:02:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site