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  •  am recording 'twilight' on tv 2night, thought i (7+ / 0-)

    should finally find out what all the enthusiasm for wearwolves [i presume they are fashionably attired] and vampires is about ...again...  can't tell if it's an extension of anne rice [also never read or seen] or a new cycle.  and if either, why?  i'm curious about the repeat attraction of things like this, is it something in society... or missing from society... or ... i dunno.  i may lack appropriate background: where i'm from, we use so much garlic that we've never seen any of these creatures so we don't have any stories about them, i guess.

    •  Meyer tapped into an emotional connection (11+ / 0-)

      that carried young women (and not so young women) away into a fantasy of not having to do anything to be worthy of love, it is enough just to be.

      What worries me more is that she has taken to producing movies.

      http://www.imdb.com/...

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      by wonderful world on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 06:32:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are right. (8+ / 0-)

        It bothers me that there seems to be so much being written that taps into an emotional connection... often a rather jejune one... without any, heck I don't wanna say moral responsibility, but I guess that's what I mean, in the sense of John Gardner's "moral fiction"....

        -9.0, -8.3 "Remember, a writer writes. Always." --Throw Momma from the Train

        by SensibleShoes on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 07:45:38 PM PDT

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        •  Yes! (3+ / 0-)

          That's what bugged me the most about Twilight.

        •  is this a consequence of mass young literacy? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RiveroftheWest, wonderful world

          i'm tempted to wonder whether the attraction of jkr/potter encouraged literacy in youngsters more powerfully than perhaps anything had previously done.   The example of successful appeal to vicarious emotional and sensory experience couldn't go without following by other writers with lower standards.  i'm not a potter fanatic, but i liked the books well enuf and thought most of the themes that troubled me did eventually resolve at a standard higher than i initially saw in the material.

          this

          a fantasy of not having to do anything to be worthy of love, it is enough just to be
          is what everyone wishes for, i'd suppose.  sad irony that the enthusiasms for the various book series seem to instead spawn added realms of conformity to the fashions of thought, behavior, and i suppose appearance templated by the books & films.
          •  I'd love to hear your take on the film (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RiveroftheWest

            when you have a chance to watch it.

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            by wonderful world on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:01:39 AM PDT

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            •  i found the film unwatchable but i've got acquired (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              wonderful world

              ADD fairly severely, so usually if there's something i find depressing, disappointing, repellant, infuriating, or boring (or heavily irrational political battling in some dk threads i've been shocked with the past couple of days of my first explorations there), i can't seem to force myself to stay put to the final fade.  that's a serious weakness because leaving that soon allows no possibility to find out if what looks repellant or disappointing etc is actually what's going to be explored: really good material and really toxic material can start out much the same.

              i can't read longform nonfiction at all anymore, because of the ADD.   i just do 2 to 3 hours a day readling medical journal material online, and sometimes post comments if i'm worried about serious flaws in the work.  i've gotten some positive response from editors & other readers about the level of the criticism, so i may have some faculties still functioning, but these are pretty short articles and even the research reports aren't so long that my mind goes off on its own merry way.  it went meandering off when i started to watch Twilight, i think at some early point the makeup or lighting started turning various characters faces a peculiar hint-hint kind of color that was actually a bit hard on the eyes as well (maybe my tv screen is too small - it's pretty old fashioned) so don't really have an opinion other than guessing that the previous comments by others in this thread, about writers and filmmakings serving up empty calories spiked with toxins in response to the legitimate wish to be valued for oneself without having to exert to be pleasing (paraphrasing, of course), are well-based.

              my apologies for not responding sooner.  i went offsides when some necessities intervened and lost track of coming back until now.  have you seen any of these Twilight & etc films or read the books?  any views you'd care to share?

              •  I frankly couldn't get past the 'sparkle' (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                RiveroftheWest, mettle fatigue

                Meyers has admitted she knew nothing about vampires before starting what became Twilight...and that's fine but then don't call your creations vampires. Call 'em 'Eternas' or 'Pukkas' or whatever. Or, here's a thought, learn something?

                Oh, well, she's making money hand over fist and I'm not so that maybe shows what I know.

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                by wonderful world on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 06:22:21 PM PDT

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                •  hl mencken or ? said no 1 ever went broke underest (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  RiveroftheWest, wonderful world

                  imating the taste of the american public.  

                  to be fair, 'tho, years ago i knew a seriously brilliant woman with a seriously serious job who read harlequins every lunch hour.  she said she could finish one in a single lunch hour by reading fast, and reading fast helped her overlook the schlock and enjoy the trip elsewhen otherwhere so she got a subjectively longer break from the job and could get back to work feeling more kinda refreshed and ready to dive in again.

                  of course she was reading them in her 30s, not an unformed mind/character/personality.  and i don't think there was anything magical or supernatural in them.  which may make a difference.

                  •  Many bright and accomplished people read (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mettle fatigue, wonderful world

                    fiction of questionable merit as a break from high-stress jobs... or play video games for the same reason. Hard-working brains just need a break sometimes.

                  •  I've written a few romances with paranormal (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    RiveroftheWest, mettle fatigue

                    elements.

                    Magic elements in a book is a matter of personal taste. If it is done well (as mine were of course!), it can enhance the 'escape'. Taking your mind on a mini-vacation is just what those high-stress folks need. A book that makes few demands on the reader can really refresh you. I've been known to escape into the books I read as a child when life gets too heavy.

                    And I've known plenty of people in their 30's with unformed minds!

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                    by wonderful world on Sun Aug 25, 2013 at 06:32:41 AM PDT

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                    •  BarbaraMichaels is the only author of romance+para (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      wonderful world, RiveroftheWest

                      normal i've read, but i've read all of those, which all have considerable mystery elements, most i think with a murder somewhere along the way.   have read all her other books under her other names except i think 2 of the nonfiction egypt books under her real name, Barbara Mertz.    even from her earliest, her protagonists were strong smart women or became strong&smart during the story, and she had considerable peer recognition within her field even before, i think, she got her Amelia Peabody archaeologist character series well under way, under penname Elizabeth Peters.  i stumbled into a thread about those a week or 2 ago, so i posted about her other names & gave her website url.  shockingly, mertz/peters/michaels passed away just a couple days later.  i posted again then.  she was a very private person except for her writing & travels in egypt & other public activities - i really hope she left her kids permission for a biography because there are elements in her writing that sound like her life was very tough early on, in particular ways that i think would make a biography very encouraging & valuable.

                      have read everything of georgette heyer which i believe more or less created the 'regency romance' subgenre but those were straightforward historicals, no supernatural.  taught me to understand the language of austen, thackery, dickens, which i deeply hated in highschool because, as it turned out, i had no clue what the heck they were saying.  i can still read longform fiction if with some sidetracking of attention if ideas send me off on a tangent.  haven't been able to read serious fiction or llongform nonfic at all, because of that sidetracking, so i'm obviously one of the stressed people for whom light fiction is necessary.  i seem to be mostly reading barbara hambly & her pen name Hamiliton right now, and rereading kate wilhelm...

                      is CB Pratt your pen name?  i haven't gone to kos katalogue for fear of what irresistibles i might find there....

      •  according to wik'dia she's really branching owt (6+ / 0-)

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

        were her books so terrible that her producing & other stuff likely also to be?  a woman's gotta do something with $40million lying around [or her share of it... i red it too fast for certainty.]  and i seem to recall various novelists of the past having massive breakdowns based on being trapped in their first genre.  which may be part of j.k.r.'s anger about being her pseudonym being outed. max brand was 1 of about 9 pseudonyms of one writer way back when, who was able to write all kinds by having all those pseudonyms.  but didn't have to show up for tv interviews, online, & author signings where he'd have been recognized.  not so easy to change persona now, it appears.

        •  JKR started a coupla charitable foundations (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RiveroftheWest

          whereas according to wikipedia, that other writer's charities seem to consist of having donated a skateboard for an auction to benefit a sick friend.

          -9.0, -8.3 "Remember, a writer writes. Always." --Throw Momma from the Train

          by SensibleShoes on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 06:21:09 AM PDT

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          •  by their spending shall thee know the millionaires (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RiveroftheWest, wonderful world

            and pretty much everyone else as well.  oh! an almost literal case of "money talks."   i was so glad of the comment about books and movies (and television, may as well add) that respond to what i'd consider a fully legitimate wish (to be valued for ourselves without having to be pleasing) by serving up widely-gobbled empty calories spiked with toxins.  i suppose that's a reasonable way to get a foothold (especially an agent and an editor, i guess) but it's depressing about what's the influence on readers when the material doesn't improve.  i haven't read anything of meyer or hocking and found the movie i taped simply unwatchable, so my assumption that their material remained junkfood is purely speculative, but i can't help thinking that with that kind of sales it must be at least theoretically possible to decide to improve the work bit by bit whether editors/publishers liked it or not, as long the revenue kept rolling in.  i kind of thought "austenland" looked, on the face of it, like a good possibility for genuine reflection on wishfulfillment, and if it turns out that way then i'd have to revise my opinion of meyer somewhat, 'tho i guess i'd still feel some concern that she copied the method of early industrialists destroying the health of the masses of workers in their factories in order to generate massive wealth from which to donate some to save workers' morals and souls, and coincidentally buy their whitewashed way into history.  which brings the circle back to how millionaires spend their money.  hm, i didn't see that coming.

            10q 4 the replies.  lots to be learned and to think about in write-on.

          •  Meyer is a Mormon (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RiveroftheWest

            She may feel tithing 10% of her monstrous earnings is giving enough.

            Support Small Business: Shop Kos Katalogue including Hero for Hire, an epic fantasy with a sense of humor by C.B. Pratt

            by wonderful world on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 08:18:40 PM PDT

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    •  Without having read the books, I gather (9+ / 0-)

      that the vampires do not act particularly vampirely, nor yet do the werewolves wolf much.

      You oughta read my stuff. They're always having to edit out my gore.

      -9.0, -8.3 "Remember, a writer writes. Always." --Throw Momma from the Train

      by SensibleShoes on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 06:35:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  [embarrassed to B ignorant] What is your stuff? (6+ / 0-)

        and isn't there some point when they let you put in contract, "nawt canz edit owt teh gore" ?

        should i have asked, 'where is yer stuff?" iz onlyn?

        •  It's in the contract that (7+ / 0-)

          I can veto editors' suggestions, yes. What it doesn't say in the contract is "only an idiot ignores the advice of people who have gone through the publication 100x more than she has" but it's the trooth.

          This is the book where they told me to cut back the blood and gore. Er, one of the books where they did. I, er, actually have one book with no blood and gore in at all! But this is the one with werewolves, etc.

          -9.0, -8.3 "Remember, a writer writes. Always." --Throw Momma from the Train

          by SensibleShoes on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 06:51:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  10Q, will see if can find. i should know better (5+ / 0-)

            than to be frivolous about editorial direction/suggestions.  sheer rebelliousness, i guess.

            •  Should be at yr local liberry (5+ / 0-)

              with any luck. That's not my real name, btw. I am too old to be named Sage :-).

              -9.0, -8.3 "Remember, a writer writes. Always." --Throw Momma from the Train

              by SensibleShoes on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 07:34:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  i figgered, but seems a good pen name. is anyone (5+ / 0-)

                really named sage?  'tho more likely than parsley, i spoze.

              •  i meant, i figured it wasnt yr real name, tho also (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                RiveroftheWest, wonderful world

                that it's at local liberry.  cannot physically get to local liberry [nor local independent bookseller] so i'll search online.

                Couldz i ask the title of whichever of your books you feel came out the most the way you wanted it to?  i'd kind of like to start w/that.  i haza b&n coupon around here somewhere i think...  ~augh~this desk...

                and seemed like a good penname to suit the material.  at some conference or other long ago there was a panel talking about the idea that author name had become (late 1990s or so, i vaguely estimate) perceived by readers to connote a sense of the book as if part of the title, even if the name never seen before/first book.  it was a mystery emphasis conference but all the members of that panel happened to be women who also wrote other genre, some of them under other names.  names wasn't the topic for panel discussion, it just went that direction at some point.

                •  Actually that *is* the book (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  RiveroftheWest

                  that I feel has come out most the way I wanted it to, of the stuff that's already sold.

                  (I have two trunk novels that did, and those are the only trunk novels I'd ever consider detrunking.)

                  Yeah, that is definitely true about names nowadays. A writer can expect to have a few.

                  -9.0, -8.3 "Remember, a writer writes. Always." --Throw Momma from the Train

                  by SensibleShoes on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 06:27:32 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  10Q for replyg about Jinx, i'll look for it. what (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    RiveroftheWest

                    would you or any writer with multiple pen names do if at a booksigning or interview someone in the readership complained about the author being not, so to speak, who s/he represented her/hisself to be because of writing in different genres under diff names? readerships seem to be quite possessive about authors in a way i'm not sure was the case in earlier years.  Frank Yerby wrote about 3 dozen bestselling novels mostly before his reading public even knew him to be african-american, from what i read in grad school.  that much privacy seems unlikely now. when i seemed to stand a chance of being published, a friend and i laughingly batted around the notion of her doing booktours in my place, if it came to that.  most women authors i've met or heard speak seemed dangerously burdened by the promotion demands.  bringing coffee to Cecellia Holland at the UCLA student union in '75 or so, i asked if she was ill, did she need anything else - she said she wasn't sick yet, just 24 hrs w/no sleep, but usually arrived home needing some medical care.  she'd come by train or something from 2 previous engagements the same day furhter north, and said the low quality of food on tours and unavailable exercise and decent sleep packed really destructive weight on and was exhausting, so she always got home battling viruses picked up along the way too sleep deprived and malnourished to fight off.  She seemed to say something about women authors getting more pressure and worse arrangements than men because of their books selling less (at the time - i suspect women outsell men now) so i stupidly asked would it help to use a male pen name and she said who then would do the book tours? i think she had to phone for a cab to take her to whatever hotel her pubr had booked her into - i sat with her cartons of books 'til she got back from the phone, astounded that there was no gopher for the heavy lifting and driving. she fell half asleep waiting for the driver but at least he took the cartons out 1 by 1.  i thought "THIS is something teachers of writing classes don't mention."  i think rita mae brown talked about it in one of her onfic books years later, saying a woman has to make almost an athlete of herself to avoid the health consequences of the writing life.

                    thnx again for reply.  
                    until next week.

                    •  Huh. I didn't know Mr. Yerby (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      mettle fatigue

                      was black; my mother often tells a story of going to a job interview wherein he was the employer; he wanted to hire someone to read to him but he told her that she read too slowly. However, he was very kind and offered to hire her anyway just to come and tell him what young people were thinking about, but she did not take the job.

                      Ms. Holland's difficulties are highly unusual ones... very few writers get sent on book tours. In fact...
                      http://www.youtube.com/...

                      -9.0, -8.3 "Remember, a writer writes. Always." --Throw Momma from the Train

                      by SensibleShoes on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 01:06:01 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  i guess holland was lucky then, 'cos the place was (0+ / 0-)

                        packed, even as dead-tired as she was, and lots of her books got sold!   of course that was in the mid1970s, and a university bookstore (it was part of the students' union bldg) kind of has a built-in customer-base.

                        Yerby's at wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/...     Reading of your mother's interview, i was thinking, "wow!"  of course, one rarely knows at the time that a person they're talking to or an event they're witnessing or involved in may turn into something of historical significance.

                        i suppose authors can be interviewed by webcam & things if the pubr wants or the publicist arranges?  i'm not sure if you were saying that booksignings don't go on much anymore.

                        if they don't, it must be very now tough for most authors to get their books known of by their potential readership.  my impression is that blockbuster writers are constantly on talk shows, but i don't see much of that kind of program ... 'tho what drew me to the daily show & colbert initially was discovering they seemed to have a book & author to showcase every single freaking half hour of airtime, & i would bet that comprises more support of literacy, authorship, and the exchange of ideas than any routine 24 hours of any other media channel.

                        fiction doesn't seem to figure there too often tho.  things changed so much for publishing & authorship in the early 1970s, a few pieces of legislation and kaboom.  of course, books/publishing were far from the only things in the public interest being dynamited, loudly or quietly, at that time...  

                        loved the youtube video, thanks!  poor guy...

      •  At Least in Dark Redemption... (7+ / 0-)

        At least in Dark Redemption the vampires and werewolves were appropriately viscious.  None of this "Oh woe, I am under a curse" garbage.  My wife's corporate werewolf character might have suffered some personal angst, but it was more about maneuvering the intracacies of werewolf pack and sexual politics.  She didn't mope.

        Strephon is different.  He is by nature an introspective character.  But despite being part-faerie, he does not sparkle.  That would be gauche.

        Read my webcomic, "Hannibal Tesla Adventure Magazine" at http://www.kurtoonsonline.com/

        by quarkstomper on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 06:45:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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