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View Diary: Out of Control NSA Spied on U.N., E.U. (214 comments)

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  •  You're welcome. (6+ / 0-)

    I'm not sure that it's feasible to dismantle it completely, as the NSA is likely also doing important and real work as well, even if they seem to be doing their very best to give the impression that they are only doing crazy, stupid stuff.

    What is clear beyond a doubt to me, however, is that this agency is in need of some heavy-duty reform, that numerous people in the agency need to be demoted and/or fired, that the outsourcing to private companies needs to stop(I mean, how stupid can you get??!), and that some serious and real oversight needs to be put in place .

    As for why the issue tears up the place:

    it is too often discussed and presented with some quite nasty anti-Obama stuff, CT speculation, attacks, off-topic stuff, emotional manipulation, and hyperbole added to the mix, imo. People trying to raise awareness of the issue would do well to approach the issue with less antagonism and and more sober discussion.  Ranger995 wrote a diary that was a great example of discussing this in a productive manner, imo:

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Sun Aug 25, 2013 at 08:24:27 AM PDT

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    •  I for one (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lawrence, PhilJD, MRA NY, catilinus

      Would love for you to take the lead on the NSA issue.  

      Your credibility in not harboring hatred for Obama clearly adds something to the potential for calm debate without pie flinging.  

      Believe it or not, many on the other side yearn for an actual debate.  

      Corporations - don't miss the opportunity to rent this space! Only $100 per word!

      by Nada Lemming on Sun Aug 25, 2013 at 08:59:58 AM PDT

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      •  I welcome you to any of my diaries or comments (7+ / 0-)

        And I'm kind of wondering when that "actual" debate will materialize.

        Personally, I would settle for substantive discussion or even argument, provided it is reasonable and fact-oriented.

        But to be honest, I've spent less and less time here recently and purposely did not publish some diaries I may yet do simply because it was apparent any diary that seriously examine the issues in a critical way will be met with a deluge rage (not an exaggeration) by people who seem to equate criticism of Obama policy as hatred for the man, "Paulbotosm" and "Greenwaldian" pandering and the like.

        I notice one of the ring leaders was just banned. Maybe that will help clam things down.

        Feel free to comment on the subject to me anytime, I always try to meet sincere people halfway.

        There is much to discuss.

        By the way, I think if you really yearn for "actual debate" it can be had in a lot of the diaries representing positions you may not quite agree with (one essential ingredient for debate I'm sure you'll agree) simply by stating reasoned positions and presenting facts if you have them.

      •  I think a big mistake in debate that takes place (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PhilJD, Nada Lemming

        here at DailyKos is that too many view things in a binary way, ie. that there are only two sides, even though there are all kinds of views and shades of grey in between.  

        I would hope that we wouldn't need any single person to lead the debate on any given issue, but that we could all drop the antagonism and hyperbole and try to come to our best possible understanding of important issues by reasonably and thoughtfully discussing them and listening to each other and learning more by doing so.

        I think that there are many, from all kinds of sides and/or no side who yearn for real debate on this, and other, issues.

        "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

        by Lawrence on Sun Aug 25, 2013 at 09:29:29 AM PDT

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