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View Diary: Out of Control NSA Spied on U.N., E.U. (214 comments)

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  •  I have to disagree with you here. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    midagedlib, ukit, TJ, Enzo Valenzetti

    I know that quite a few Americans seem to think that everybody does it, but I see very little evidence to support that assumption.  I think it entails a heavy dose of self-projection, tbh.  Countries like China and Russia definitely do, but our allies, by and large, are not like that.

    For example, I know the workings of the German state pretty well and I highly doubt that they are doing extensive spying on the U.S. Govt.  Furthermore, I highly doubt that most other E.U. governments are doing this kind of thing at anywhere near to this level.  They just don't put aside enough budget for that kind of thing, tbh., with the exception of Great Britain and, possibly, France.  Furthermore, they care a lot more about spying on dangerous and antagonistic nations than they do about spying on an allied nation like the U.S.

    This "huge intelligence establishment" of ours was created during the Cold War to counter the entire frigging Soviet Bloc.  The Cold War is over and the intelligence apparatus is in some serious need of reform.  If we need intelligence information from European allies, their security agencies will be happy to collaborate with ours as long as it is not in violation of their laws.

    I tell you what, here's a novel approach for the NSA in regards to the U.N.:

    it could help the U.N. combat spying so that no nation can spy on the U.N.  That way, if a country like China does it, they can be publicly shamed.

    With the way we are doing it now, I think the damage in reputation and credibility that we are experiencing right now far outweighs any (doubtful) benefits we may have had from spying on the U.N. and our allies and friends.

    Last, but not least, soldiers from many of these nations have been fighting and dying next to our soldiers in Afghanistan.  How do you think these countries feel when they figure out that they are being spied on while that is happening?

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Sun Aug 25, 2013 at 08:53:42 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  France is one of our few Western European (0+ / 0-)

      allies that I would expect does spy on the United States.

    •  Good point. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lawrence

      What other nation would drop $60 billion a year (that we know about) on stuff like this?

    •  Major EU Powers.. (0+ / 0-)

      ...like Germany (and also UK, Italy, France, etc.) all have very well regarded intelligence agencies.  Believe if you will that these agencies don't do what they are intended to do...

      Believe if you will as well that "friendly" nations don't gather intelligence on each other.  The line gets blurry given the close relationships under the NATO banner.  But it happens.

      It gets uncomfortable when someone gets caught.  But it is a game all play.  I expect the US, Germany, France, the UK, etc. all know a lot more about what each other are up to that is publicly known (and likely won't ever be fully revealed).

      Remember, the US and these countries are also economic rivals to a degree.

      "Hidden in the idea of radical openness is an allegiance to machines instead of people." - Jaron Lanier

      by FDRDemocrat on Sun Aug 25, 2013 at 11:33:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think you understand these countries (0+ / 0-)

        fully.  It would be a huge scandal if the German BND got caught bugging U.N. internal video conferencing and/or E.U. conference offices or the White House or Congressional offices.

        Heads would seriously roll.  It might even lead to the downfall of a government.

        What I do know that the BND does, however, is that it passes on information to the NSA from its espionage efforts in Afghanistan and surrounding regions.

        "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

        by Lawrence on Sun Aug 25, 2013 at 02:49:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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