Skip to main content

View Diary: Will We Ever See 'Political' Churches Pay Taxes? (Revised) (240 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Apologies. I've been at work and didn't see these (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Frederick Clarkson, Amber6541

    comments. Should I delete the diary or make corrections?
     

    "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

    by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 03:51:54 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks Adam B. I've written to a couple Kossacks (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Amber6541

        who've also been here from the start. I want to do what's right and not dodge my mistakes or errors. I've been told it's never good to delete diaries - soI want to be sure that's best.

        I hope you all will be patient for a few minutes so that I can make the best decision for Daily Kos.

        "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

        by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:17:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Again, I've been at work and was not aware... (0+ / 0-)

          I checked in and revised the title and was not able to read all the comments at that time.

          I can at least give this apology now in the comments, for any misinformation. My misinterpretations were out of excitement and not meant with malice.

          I will make amends in any ways that I'm able.

          "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

          by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:21:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  amend the title (0+ / 0-)

            It's still provocative, still incorrect.

            Van Hollen is eminently worthy of our support and kudos, but don't make it sound like he's trying to do what you misconstrued in your title.

            Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. -- K.Marx A.Lincoln

            by N in Seattle on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:32:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not just the title (5+ / 0-)

              If it were just the title that would be a fairly easy fix. But the content of the diary is even more error filled, and pretty much unfixable.

              “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

              by Catte Nappe on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:34:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  agreed,but... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Catte Nappe, Leslie Salzillo

                ...the diarist does have a (small) point about the inadvisability of deleting diaries.

                The disclaimer/correction is grossly inadequate. But if the title was sufficiently non-inflammatory, few would be looking at the diary at all.

                Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. -- K.Marx A.Lincoln

                by N in Seattle on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:39:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The main reason to not delete diaries (3+ / 0-)

                  Is to avoid killing an entire comment history - of which this dairy does admittedly have a lengthy one. But even with a non-inflammatory title, the content needs to be drastically corrected. You may be wrong that few would look at it. It was posted for a period of time on the DKos FB page, and no telling who "shared" it from there, and who will pass it on over the next day. The DKos social media maven (can't call her name right of hand - Sara(h) something?) does a weekly round up, and has often found that a diary got a huge resurgence and wide reading weeks after it originally posted.

                  “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

                  by Catte Nappe on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:46:27 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  reason #52835 (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Catte Nappe

                    ...to eschew Facebook. Ugh.

                    Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. -- K.Marx A.Lincoln

                    by N in Seattle on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 08:02:34 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  It would be best (5+ / 0-)

                If the title were amended to "A Diary that Went Wrong" and there was a direct acknowledgement of what exactly what went wrong and where readers can to correct any misunderstandings they may now have as a result.  One good solution would be to acknowledge and link to the diary that got it right and corrects the record.  A lot of people who are not well-informed about this subject were completely, if inadvertently, misled and those who arrive at or returns to the diary now, deserve to know the facts.  

                 

                •  Good suggestion n/t (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Frederick Clarkson

                  “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

                  by Catte Nappe on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 05:51:32 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Yes. Even better. n/t (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Catte Nappe
                •  Will do. Very good idea. I'm slowly untangling . (4+ / 0-)

                  the mess I've made.

                  It's a double punch in the stomach - I'm sad the aforementioned lawsuit doesn't address the political church tax-exemption issue, nor do any other legal actions that I know of, but I will be doing some research.

                  And of course, I'm embarrassed for not doing my homework on the diary. Another hard lesson learned, yet I am extremely grateful for these lessons, as painful as they can be. They continue to help me improve as a writer - I don't ever want to mislead. I hope folks here know that was not my intention. It was poor diarist skills on my part.

                  "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

                  by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 08:16:32 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  good and gracious reply Leslie (2+ / 0-)

                    You were taken in by that convincing sounding post at Good As You.  That said, we all need to be careful about sourcing. It bites us all in the ass once in awhile -- but usually not quite so publicly ;-)

                    As for your main concern, there actually is a lawsuit that was recently filed by the Freedom from Religion Foundation that seeks the IRS to better enforce the c3 tax rules.  Its been written about, but there is certainly plenty more to be said about it, and related matters.  Many diaries yet to be written.  Its my experience that most of us are learning way out in the open here. And how we learn out in the open is at least as important as what we usually have to say.  May we all learn well.

                    •  Thank you, Frederick. Your words are very kind and (0+ / 0-)

                      I'm inspired by the information you shared regarding Freedom from Religion Foundation. I'll read up and perhaps write more on the subject - but of course, much more carefully.

                      "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

                      by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 11:53:07 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  I amended the title. How do I make lines through (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Catte Nappe

              words to cross out the misinformation so it doesn't look like I'm conveniently deleting ...

              The diary is now about my mistake, apology and my commentary about the churche's manipulation of politics and tax-exemption.

              If I delete, anyone who shared will open a dead link. Believe me, I'd like to delete - this is torture. I want to handle this with integrity.

              "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

              by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:51:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Not an HTML expert, by any means (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Leslie Salzillo

                But I've used < del >. Actually, what I do is mark the text with the usual editing tools - say for bolding, then replace the HTML with the "del".

                So, if I wanted to mark out something like

                I said something wrong here.
                I'd "bold" it
                < strong >I said something wrong here.
                < /strong >
                Then replace "strong" with "del".
                < del >I said something wrong here.
                < /del >
                 (I've put extra spaces before and after the "<" and ">" to show you. Without the spaces it would come out like:
                I said something wrong here.

                “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

                by Catte Nappe on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 05:04:46 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Unless you remove (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                nomandates, SoCalSal, Catte Nappe, Adam B

                (not just strike through) every reference to Van Hollen, you are providing fodder for his political enemies by implying he is actively advocating a view that is antithetical to the desires of much of his constituency. No one is attributing malice to you, but this was not a minor error. (I'll admit that as a former Van Hollen constituent and current Democrat, I do object to your continuing to privilege your own social media persona over his political fortunes, but I guess blogging ain't beanbag either.)

                Lest anyone suffer the horrors of a dead link, how about a complete substitution like "The diary I published at this link was based on wrong information, and I have withdrawn it." Can't do much better for integrity building than that.

                •  Adam B. I just sent you a note. I'm trying to (0+ / 0-)

                  admit my mistake, revise without 'hiding' and not delete if possible, so the any readers exposed don't open up to a Daily Kos dead link.

                  "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

                  by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 05:25:29 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Also, I've been told when deleting a story, all (0+ / 0-)

                    those who made comments also open to a dead link as well,  when reviewing their comments. This is a tough one.

                    I feel like that marriage/divorce column, Can This Marriage (Diary) Be Saved?  

                    "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

                    by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 05:29:41 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  If it helps (2+ / 0-)

                      The comments don't disappear, they just become harder to "find".  If you did delete this diary, and I went to my comments and "opened" this one, I'd see it. And I could follow the "parents" all the way up, until whatever comment in the thread was a direct response to the immediate diary.  Villanove Rhodes has one suggestion just a few comments up/down that would solve event that problem.

                      “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

                      by Catte Nappe on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 05:36:56 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Perfect. Thank you, Villanova. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Catte Nappe, Villanova Rhodes

                  "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

                  by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 05:34:14 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  alternatively... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Leslie Salzillo

                    You can use the <s> tag ("s" for "strikethrough"). Like this:

                    <s>stuff I wish I'd never said</s>

                    becomes

                    stuff I wish I'd never said

                    Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. -- K.Marx A.Lincoln

                    by N in Seattle on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 08:12:33 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That is the first much-needed laugh I've had today (0+ / 0-)

                      N in Seattle, in regards to your choice of words...

                      Stuff I wish I never said'

                      stuff I wish I'd never said
                      becomes

                      stuff I wish I'd never said

                      Good to know the strike-out tip from you and Catte Nappe. Thank you.

                      "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

                      by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 10:58:22 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Yes, Villanova, I had to clean it up as much as I (0+ / 0-)

                  could here first. Then I went on to do the same elsewhere. This is an experience I don't every want to repeat.

                  That's why I am grateful to be part of the Daily Kos community. I might not have ever known I made the error had I not posted it here.

                  I value this site to being one of the most creditable sites I know, and I want to be part of that integrity, which means I need to admit my errors.

                  I do wish some Kossacks would try messaging before slamming a diarist and assuming the worst. Had I received an email, I would have responded much faster. Alas, it is what is. The good far outweighs the unpleasant. And the unpleasant is what keep me on our toes.

                  "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

                  by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 10:47:01 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm glad you eventually worked it out. (0+ / 0-)

                    If you look carefully, you'll see people waited a long time before "slamming" you -- to the minimal extent they did. It was many hours after several commenters had pointed out the errors, and still no one HR'd or slammed you. A counter diary was put up because you would not respond. Still no HRs. Once a couple were dropped to get your attention, several of us declined to pile on. Only after you returned to respond to a couple of comments and apparently ignored the rest did people throw up their hands. Whatever slamming occurred was for not responding, and not for the original content. Everyone could see that the problem came from your source.

                    As for using kosmail, I'm not sure why I'd expect a person to attend to that but not to comments in their own diary, especially "hey diarist!" comments posted in a direct response such as Catte Nappe's. (Perhaps your kosmail forwards to a personal email account, but I don't think that's true for many people here.) I might send a diarist a kosmail about a typo or to discuss a personal matter (rarely), but I would never use kosmail to debate the accuracy of a diary. That might be a nicer culture in some ways, but it's not the culture here. Moreover, it quickly gets confusing and difficult, as it is bad form if not forbidden to then republish private mail. The result would be something like what Markos is trying to avoid by disallowing editing or deletion of comments -- gaps in the thread. (Pre-publication review would be great, but it's hard to know who would do that for any given subject.)

                    I'm sorry this was such a difficult process for you, and I give you credit for working hard to clear it up.

                    •  Thank you for your kind words at the end. I am so (0+ / 0-)

                      exhausted.  I have apologized again and again for an unintentional mistake. I did not ignore anyone - I simply did not know. Some said, "She wouldn't respond to me. She chooses to ignore us..." And one person must have made about 15 comments about the fact that I had not responded.

                      I published early - 5am, and checked in later in the morning. Everything was good - very good! Checked in quickly later and saw a comment saying I should alter the title - which I did. I thought the only problem was that the church exemption was not his primary goal so I altered the title, made a quick comment, then back to work.

                      Checked in later and started reading down the messages and saw Adam B's comment saying the lawsuit had nothing at all to do with what I thought. I'm thinking, "Oh no!" I looked up and I had 13 HRs. Then I saw Gary Norton wrote a diary about my diary being wrong (which I agree, was a good idea, but I didn't know)

                      Within minutes, while I was trying to address comments and make changes, 6 more HRs came in. 19 total! I would have deleted the diary, but thousands had already liked/shared it was told I shouldn't delete by some, and I didn't want to make things worse for Daily Kos. I was scrambling to do the right thing, wasn't sure how to edit it without seeming dishonest - and I was told so many things by so many people, my head was spinning. And much of the advice contradicted the other.

                      Had someone sent me an kossmail during the day saying, "Hey Leslie. You might want to check your diary - there's a big problem!" I would have gotten an email notification, and checked as soon as I could. Instead I came back to all of those HRs, accusations, and not so nice comments (though, I've gotten worse).

                      It's sad that even after all the changes, apologies, statements of goodwill, some here still opt to leave in their HR's. And some are out of spite. I know this - we all know there are people who do that. Alas, majority of folks don't.

                      I have written many diaries here, and have always tried to maintain integrity and accuracy - I make mistakes. Most of us don't get paid. I write in Daily Kos, because I love and respect this group. I feel terrible about what happened - And i did what I could.

                      I still think the HR system is abused. It was alluded that I didn't pay attention until I got the HRs. That is simply untrue. I was unavailable. I can't imagine what would have happened  had I opted to go out to dinner instead of checking.

                      Either way, I appreciate that you removed your HR, and tried to alert me.

                      I certainly understand the frustration many had yesterday. And I still freakin' love this community. :)

                      "In this world, hate has never yet dispelled hate. Only love can dispel hate." ~ Buddha

                      by Leslie Salzillo on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 11:31:49 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

        •  As you make the "best decision" for DKos (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nomandates, Leslie Salzillo

          Please factor in who you just responded to. Adam B is DKos' lawyer. Officially. If he says delete I'll be lexpecting you to present damn good reasons to ignore his recommendation.

          “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

          by Catte Nappe on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:36:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site