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View Diary: NSA bugged UN headquarters, European Union, and UN nuclear watchdog organization (267 comments)

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  •  This is the NSA's job! (8+ / 0-)

    So Snowden the hero leaked information not in any contradiction of US law, not a 4th amendment issue, simply because he doesn't believe in it's legal mission.  The 4th amendment issue was completely a ruse to get initial support, and now the same supporters will keep on supporting leaks such as these rather than saying this is treason.  

    So if I joined the military because I hated it and then released troop info - that would be a-ok?

    “I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I have many more documents on England’s spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.” -G.Greenwald

    by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 12:26:57 PM PDT

    •  lol (17+ / 0-)

      You clearly either haven't been keeping up with this story or you're willfully ignoring its genesis.

      Just because something is "legal" doesn't make it right.




      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

      by DeadHead on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 12:52:09 PM PDT

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      •  It's legal and right. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jim Riggs, charliehall2

        “I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I have many more documents on England’s spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.” -G.Greenwald

        by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 02:14:32 PM PDT

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        •  Just so we're clear... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          StrayCat, Johnny Q, wrights

          What's "right?"

          The activities reported by this diary, or everything the NSA does that we've come to learn about over the last couple of months?

          Whatever your answer, did you feel the same way when Bush was president? Are you certain you'll feel the same way the next time a Republican gets into the White House?




          Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

          by DeadHead on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 02:29:57 PM PDT

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    •  It depends (21+ / 0-)

      are those troops gunning down a camera crew from a helicopter and then covering it up?

      "These are established professionals that have a liberal bent, but ultimately most of them if pushed will choose professional preservation over cause, such is the mentality of most business professionals" -BoA/HBGary/CoC

      by LieparDestin on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 12:52:37 PM PDT

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      •  Not only the camera crew, but a van with a family (11+ / 0-)

        in it, including children.  Murdered them all.

        "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

        by YucatanMan on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 01:25:49 PM PDT

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      •  Nope. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        charliehall2

        But the 700,000 other files that were released without knowing what the hell he was leaking to nutter Assange - see that is very often overlooked by certain folks.  

        “I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I have many more documents on England’s spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.” -G.Greenwald

        by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 02:13:35 PM PDT

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        •  so we must get Manning but not the war... (8+ / 0-)

          criminals? got it. think there's a conscience void there though.

          i'm embarrassed by my country. sigh...

          "The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." ~George Orwell "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

          by poligirl on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 02:16:40 PM PDT

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          •  Both should be tried in my opinion. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aimeehs

            Doesn't let Manning and what he did off the hook in any way.   Keep focus on the one clip, ignore the other 699,999 files...

            “I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I have many more documents on England’s spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.” -G.Greenwald

            by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 02:20:34 PM PDT

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        •  Yeah if only (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Nailbanger, atana, Johnny Q

          he had tried to release them to credited media organizations that would perform their duty and vet/write about them responsibly, then things would be different....

          oh wait, he did... and our press is a joke.

          We were obsessed with capturing and killing human targets on lists and ignoring goals and missions. I believed if the public, particularly the American public, could see this it could spark a debate on the military and our foreign policy in general as it applied to Iraq and Afghanistan. It might cause society to reconsider the need to engage in counter terrorism while ignoring the human situation of the people we engaged with every day.”-Bradley Manning
          What a horrible man indeed.

          "These are established professionals that have a liberal bent, but ultimately most of them if pushed will choose professional preservation over cause, such is the mentality of most business professionals" -BoA/HBGary/CoC

          by LieparDestin on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:49:24 PM PDT

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    •  Yes, this is (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Trix, Jacoby Jonze, charliehall2

      what they are supposed to be doing.

      Snowden's whistleblower status is quickly fading as he reveals secret spying techniques of the NSA aimed at foreign govts.  That is not illegal, and is their mission.

      It is one thing revealing surveillance of US citizens, but foreigners?

      It is great for progressives on here to assume that Russia and China and even Israel have our best interests at heart ,but it is simply not true.

      One way to prevent real wars is to have intel that keeps the US ahead of their next move. Take it away, and the US might be forced into a true blunder based on lack of good intel.

      Call me crazy but I still prefer the USA knows what evil lurks in the heart of a Putin....ahead of time.

      •  history has shown (15+ / 0-)

        that these agencies are more about manufacturing information to get us into war, than sweeping it up to keep us out of one.

        "These are established professionals that have a liberal bent, but ultimately most of them if pushed will choose professional preservation over cause, such is the mentality of most business professionals" -BoA/HBGary/CoC

        by LieparDestin on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 01:36:49 PM PDT

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        •  War is business (7+ / 0-)

          They use wars for two things: profit for themselves, and creating security bubbles where large corporations can extract resources from foreign countries without hindrance. Huge profits, kickbacks, and tons of money. What's not to like?

          As a side benefit of this thuggish behavior, many, many, folks are harmed and become drawn into anti American militant groups, now referred to as "terrorist organizations".

          Also the drone strikes are intended to create more enemies. War is business, and they need a constant flow of new blood into the "terrorist organizations", so by droning the crap out of them its a sure bet to create lots of new enemies.

          Since all they do is "secret", no one can prove that I am wrong about this.

          A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

          by onionjim on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 01:59:03 PM PDT

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      •  Okay Crazy,... (0+ / 0-)

        is there a limit?  Two things should be made clear;

        If we are saying that it is acceptable for us to spy on other countries, why is it not acceptable them to spy on us?  If we are supposed to be okay with our country tapping their phones and tapping out phones as well, does that mean it is okay for our country to hire other citizens from around the world to spy on their own countries?  Isn't that their security agencies' job to spy on us?  Then if it is okay then why couldn't Russia or China hire Snowden to spy on us (assuming the worst that Snowden is a hired spy)?  Isn't turnabout fair play?

        and two, who is the bigest threat to involve europe into their next war?  Wasn't it the United States on faulty intelligence it should have known was faulty responsible for getting half of europe fighting in this war on terror?  Don't they have a right to:

        prevent real wars is to have intel that keeps the US (them) ahead of their (our) next move.

        "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

        by Buckeye Nut Schell on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 01:45:56 PM PDT

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        •  It is acceptable that they try to spy on us... (0+ / 0-)

          Just as it's acceptable for the US Government to try and stop them from spying on us.  

          Yes they could try to hire Snowden - that's why the penalty for treason is death.  

          “I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I have many more documents on England’s spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.” -G.Greenwald

          by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 02:16:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So, it is okay if they do it... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Medium Head Boy, Johnny Q

            but we should kill anybody who participates in it.

            And it is acceptable if we do it to them but I guess it is okay if they kill our spies as well.

            I guess I am confused about your definition of acceptable...

            How about this.  We shouldn't spy on our friends and they shouldn't spy on us.  We shouldn't do things like start wars with countries under false pretenses and they shouldn't do that either.

            I read somewhere in a book about treating others as I would like to be treated.  Some kind of precious metal rule or something.  (For you secularists out there, Immanuel Kant had some kind of catagorical suggestion or something like that).

            "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

            by Buckeye Nut Schell on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 03:45:58 PM PDT

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      •  Everytime you say, "we", and "us", and "our", (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Buckeye Nut Schell

        you are making an epistemological error of staggering proportion.

        Everytime you employ "Russia", "China", or "Israel" as the subject of a verb in an anthropomorphic context, you are making an epistemological error of staggering proportion.

        Most of the people doing most of the things that folks here are complaining about are not in any substantial sense members of a "we" that includes me; they share neither my values, nor my principles, nor my material interests. Even more certainly, the primary beneficiaries of their activities cannot be imagined to share the particular interests of me or my family and community. To the contrary, what they do imperils our wellbeing. Happily, I do not believe in the soul, for if souls existed, ours would be hopelessly damned by the activities putatively done on our behalf, and with our consent.

        That they do is an illusion carefully nurtured by those with the power, in order to deceive people as to the identities of their real enemies and their real allies.

        The NSA is a criminal organization in its conception and its operations. It is by its very nature unethical and amoral. It should not exist: Its existence is an affront to any decent concept of justice, of law, or of morality.

        To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

        by UntimelyRippd on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 03:34:05 PM PDT

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    •  It depends on why they were bugging them (5+ / 0-)

      and it's rather shitty to do that to an organization that is neither your enemy nor your rival.

      The party of Kennedy is also the party of Eastland. The party of Javits is also the party of Goldwater. Where is our party? Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march on Washington?

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 01:05:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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