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View Diary: To my fellow Obamab*ts - Snowden/Greenwald bashing is Missing the Point (318 comments)

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  •  hi brit (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vcmvo2, xndem

    I don't normally participate in diaries about this topic, but since I've read and appreciated some of your work before, I'm going to take the time to say...

    I find diaries like this--in fact, I find this diary--annoying and paternalistic.

    It seems to assume that, in some way, those you are speaking to are not also fully-realized adults capable of having complicated, complex views of this situation. Of holding two or more opposing thoughts at the same time. Of an unawareness of historical events and the impact they have had, do have, on current events.

    It has the whiff of "if only we had someone who could just reason with those people, talk their language, get them to see the sense of our arguments"--while completely ignoring theirs.

    Believe it or not, many people are able to see and feel beyond one issue. Beyond one person, or couple of persons. Those in marginalized groups, particularly, often don't have the luxury of viewing history/current events through simply one or two lenses. Three, four, five and even more is more often the case. "This relates to this and is a result of that, while analogous to this other thing--but don't forget this consequence and the other impact of that action, or where or what, in "the long view" this action could impact." For example.

    Anyway, I may be hyper-aware and sensitive due to events of the past few weeks, but I think this would come off better if you simply said what you believe--and allow others the courtesy of assuming that they also came to their views (some of which no doubt span the gamut) through careful, considered study and thought.

    True radicalism is finding reasons for hope, not grounds for despair. - Ray Williams

    by Nanette K on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 03:25:04 PM PDT

    •  Hi Nannette (7+ / 0-)

      I didn't mean to be 'paternalistic' but I guess anyone who ventures a diary about a contentious issue runs the risk of 'telling others what to think'.

      The complexity of these issues is always going to be impossible to abbreviate in a few paras. However, even if this does not include you, I've seen several journalists and blog colleagues outline their positions in the way I describe (a bit ad hominem over Greenwald and Snowden). If that doesn't include you, just assume it wasn't addressed to you.

      Whether I'm right in describing it that way is - of course - where the comments section comes in.

      Thanks for your comment anyway

      The Fall of the House of Murdoch -with Eric Lewis and all the latest Leveson evidence out now!

      by Brit on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 03:30:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It seems to me (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JosephK74, JVolvo, SoCalSal, tardis10, triv33

      having read many Diaries and comments on this subject, that this Diarist would like to believe this:

      It seems to assume that, in some way, those you are speaking to are not also fully-realized adults capable of having complicated, complex views of this situation. Of holding two or more opposing thoughts at the same time. Of an unawareness of historical events and the impact they have had, do have, on current events.
      but that the evidence does not bear it out.

      I would add that it is only a few, but they have been a very noisy few.

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      Who is twigg?

      by twigg on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 03:35:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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