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View Diary: To my fellow Obamab*ts - Snowden/Greenwald bashing is Missing the Point (318 comments)

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  •  I use to be an Obamab*t... (7+ / 0-)

    But no more! He's a corporate owned politician and if he strikes Syria without Congress, United Nations &  International support I will support the bat shit crazy Tea Partiers to impeach him!      

    •  You sound like a Tea Party type anyway (15+ / 0-)

      since you are making wild claims with no factual basis.

      "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

      by shrike on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 04:22:33 PM PDT

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      •  uh what? (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        geph, Anorish, Kombema, corvo, kharma, eagleray

        corporate owned? is that the part that has no factual basis? you really make that claim with a straight face about the Establishment "Monsanto" Democrats? WOW.

        that said, if what obama has done with CO and WA regarding standing back and seeing how legalization goes, even allowing banking with marijuana businesses, i stand by what i've said to friends and fellow kossacks alike: i will become an obama supporter once again if he does this, even with this outrageous warrantless surveillance ongoing.... i have to hope he will do the right thing with that near the end of his administration, if only because repubs could come back into power and start torturing people again... they are the fascist boogymen this diarist warns about....and obama needs to dismantle this out of control surveillance machine before they can use it.... and this time, the REAL teabaggers, if they gain power, will make even Cheney blush.

      •  wow (5+ / 0-)

        ten uprates for the ad hom.  

    •  You 'used' to be. Not 'use' to be. (6+ / 0-)
    •  Didn't Dennis Kucinich already jump this shark (6+ / 0-)

      with regards to Libya?

      We had a lot of hand wringing and pearl clutching here when that operation went down, even with Europe's full support. The trouble with Syria is we can't get Europe to move its fat ass . . . but then Libya had oil and Syria has nothing but a neglected bloodbath.

      And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

      by Pale Jenova on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 05:23:07 PM PDT

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      •  have you been paying attention? (13+ / 0-)

        The Obama administration has no credible plan about what an attack is going to accomplish.  We don't have the resources to drive the Syrian regime from power.  The liberal opposition in Syria is completely swamped by the Al Qaeda-aligned, Saudi-funded zealots.  If looking before you leap is "pearl-clutching", well, so be it.

        •  How do you know what plan the Obama (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          xndem, rapala, eagleray, caul

          administration has?

          Not as if it would do any good to publicize it, if it goes along the lines of what happened to Osama bin Laden.

          I just happen to trust the president on this. We have tried doing nothing for the past year or more . . . and that has turned a bad situation worse.

          And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

          by Pale Jenova on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 05:49:40 PM PDT

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        •   ROFLMAO. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jim Riggs, eagleray

          I doubt seriously that the Obama administration goes into any mission without a credible plan and knowing what it hopes to accomplish.

          "We don't have the resources to drive the Syrian regime from power."?  Give me a break.

          In the time it took Adam Lanza to reload, eleven children escaped. What if...

          by Sixty Something on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 06:12:16 PM PDT

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          •  Sorry, it's actually quite likely they do NOT have (6+ / 0-)

            a plan for what happens next. This is an ill-conceived face-saving gesture -- which will, in the end, cause the U.S. and Obama to lose MORE "face" than if they'd just recognized that throwing a few cruise missiles at a situation like this is worse than nothing! -- with no end game. And it is likely to spin out of control.

            Most of the military, the general public, and the foreign policy analysts don't think much of this. Obama is letting his ego get in the way, at least in part, and even if part of his motive is purportedly humanitarian, it's not going to do the most affected and afflicted civilian populations a bit of good, and could indeed kill more of them.

            Gotta know when to hold 'em, and when to fold 'em. We needed to have done the former for now. This is just American cowboy bluster and bullshit, and it will make us look like ineffectual idiots in the end: IF we're lucky. If we're not lucky, it will embroil us in an escalating regional war that we are ill prepared for.

            "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

            by Kombema on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 09:16:52 PM PDT

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      •  I honestly dont (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pale Jenova, xndem, Matt Z, Onomastic

        get the comparisons of this to Iraq.  We KNOW it's a bloodbath over there.  I don't even care about the chemical weapons per se.  It's the slaughter that's the issue.  The situation is closer to Rwanda, Somolia, Kosovo, or the Congo.  Doesn't the international community have a moral duty to do something in these situations.  After having my adoration of Obama disappointed, I've been a huge critic, but I think they're making the ethical call here.

        •  Yes. What they should do: (6+ / 0-)
          Doesn't the international community have a moral duty...
          The INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY (not the US, and not driven by ludicrous and outdated visions of American imperial strength.  "The US will look weak if we don't carry through on our threats..."  That's what I heard all day on CNN today.)

          The INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY should seek some kind of CEASE FIRE.  If we get out of the way and stop talking about dropping bombs, maybe that can happen.

          Even if we bomb the hell out of the place, it won't help anything at all.  Let me tell you exactly what's going to happen in Syria under the best circumstances, whether we bomb it, or we get a cease fire or whatever:

          1) There will be 15 years of sectarian violence.  

          2) There will be religious slaughter, political slaughter, and ethnic slaughter.  That's the way these things go in the Middle East, unfortunately.  

          3) There will be brief periods of reduced violence during which some people will be stupid enough to invest money or try to reopen relations, only to see the whole thing crumble again, and westerners will be taken hostage.

          4) Whomever finally ascends to power will be just as bad as Assad and he will have a new list of minorities to persecute.

          5) Somebody in the US will want to bomb him.

          •  It's the white man's burden (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dumbo, Kombema, msl, lotlizard, kharma

            So much of the commentary here assumes the Americans and Europeans wear the white hats and have good, if perhaps misguided, intentions.This is the  White Man's Burden in neo-liberal and neo-con garb, with Iran as the target, with Hizzbollah the cherry on the cake.

            •  It'll be more like a "cherry" BOMB if we blunder (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Anorish, Dumbo

              in there with guns blazing. Such an asinine, undemocratic move by our neocon-leaning administration.

              "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

              by Kombema on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 09:23:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Thing is, it is NOT like Rwanda, Somalia, Kosovo, (5+ / 0-)

            or the Congo. It's a region in which there is massive fire power, including still from the Syrian regime. This is a tinderbox. The irony is that American power actually could have done some good in all of the above cases if we'd committed sufficient (or in the case of Rwanda ANY) forces, but in the case of Syria, we will only be complicating an already intractable situation, and inflaming what could easily end up becoming a proxy war involving Russia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Lebanese Hezbollah, and Turkey, just to name a few. This is a shit-storm we should be leading from diplomatic angles, not from some ego-driven We're Number ONE! bullshit shock and awe perspective. WTF.

            "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

            by Kombema on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 09:22:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Won't move their fat asses? (6+ / 0-)

        I suppose they're like those cheese-eating surrender monkey Frogs now?

        It's like people took their HOME and VISITOR football jersies off and traded them, and then started playing the same game, rooting the same way for the other side.

        How many stupid pointless wars do we need to get involved in in the Middle East before the lesson finally sinks in that IT'S NOT OUR PART OF THE WORLD TO FIX.  WE DON'T OWN THE MIDDLE EAST.  LIKE WE DIDN'T OWN SOUTHEAST ASIA.  The people we pretend to want to help never appreciate it and see it as cynical meddling.   We end up causing more damage than we pretend to want to fix.  The unappreciative winners we help almost always turn out to be worse than the losers.  Before they begin collapse under their own corruption or from being perceived as American puppets.

        Let's just stay out of it.  

    •  There's a lot of bat shit crazy anti-Obamabots. (0+ / 0-)

      What's one more?

      Please pretend that I don't give a shit.

      by Jim Riggs on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 07:18:55 PM PDT

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