Skip to main content

View Diary: To my fellow Obamab*ts - Snowden/Greenwald bashing is Missing the Point (318 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  you do understand that intent (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    I give in to sin, xndem

    is the only thing separating 2nd degree and 1st degree murder? Or that intent is the largely the difference between murder and manslaughter?

    You can't simply just completely divorce the intent from the action because at that point you've rendered the action meaningless.

    That's not to say that the act doesn't have it's own importance but that influence is heavily if not completely 'flavoured' by the intent. In point of fact our whistle blower laws (among many others) rely almost completely on intent.

    Thus personally I think it is nonsense to suggest that intent in meaningless. People don't just act in a vacuum, there is always intent and to evaluate without considering that intent is like trying to solve an equation with only half the starting values.

    •  What does murder have to do with this? (8+ / 0-)

      We are talking about the information, not the people involved. That's the whole point. How does intent matter in regards to the information. You're just back to attacking the people again.

      If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

      by AoT on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 05:34:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it's an example (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        xndem

        I could as easily used most of the fraud laws on the books

        •  Yes, obviously it's an example (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DeadHead, Rick Aucoin, kharma, stevemb

          What was the point of the example in regards to the diary and the comments that preceding it? I understand perfectly well the place of intention under the law, I am unclear as to how that relates to understanding the information released by snowden. And how it makes calling snowden a hacker on topic in the diary.

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 08:58:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I will explain this one last time (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            xndem, Christin

            because I get tired of repeating myself.

            You seem to think that the act and the intent can be completely separated.

            I don't and have explained way and I even did so using an example. What was intended is of critical importance especially in whistle blower cases as the protection of law hinges on intent.

            Snowden's intent is just as much a story on it's own as well as part of the overall story. You can't ignore that just because it's inconvenient.

            •  Personally... (4+ / 0-)

              I couldn't give half a shit what the intent to leak was.  You obviously know a lot about it because you can see inside Snowden's head.  Regardless of your omnipresence, I care, as do many here, about the content of the leaks.  Do you have no problem with the government having the ability to see inside your life and every move?

              "There never was a good war or a bad peace." ~Benjamin Franklin

              by kharma on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 04:58:03 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  So we have to talk about Snowden's intent (1+ / 0-)

              every time we talk about the NSA because it's critical? The point is that his intent is entirely off topic in a diary about what the NSA is doing, which this diary is about. His intent matters fuck all in that context and is used as a distraction. Not to mention that no one even made a statement about his intent except you. And you've still refused to explain why intent matters in the context of this diary. And you haven't even said what you think his intent was, you just keep saying it matters.

              If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

              by AoT on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 09:41:17 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  that's not what I am saying (0+ / 0-)

                and in point of fact on diaries that don't bring Snowden/GG into the picture I'd suggest it's best to stick to the topic of the diary.

                That said this diary for example is about Snowden so his intent in entirely on topic.

                Basically honor the topic and don't drag a diary about the NSA off topic by making it about something else.

                PS You're right I've not said what I think his intent was, partly because I'm not precisely sure and partly because I fail to see how it matters here.

                •  What the fuck are you talking about? (0+ / 0-)

                  The diary's title is...

                  To my fellow Obamab*ts - Snowden/Greenwald bashing is Missing the Point
                  ... and you go on to state that...
                  That said this diary for example is about Snowden so his intent in entirely on topic.
                  Which is COMPLETELY FUCKING WRONG.

                  Later in that same sentence you say...

                  ...his intent in entirely on topic.
                  Which is quickly followed by...
                  PS You're right I've not said what I think his intent was, partly because I'm not precisely sure and partly because I fail to see how it matters here.
                  Are you completely fucking nuts, or do you not follow what you say from one sentence to the next. Inquiring minds wish to know.

                  'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                  by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 04:06:52 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site