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View Diary: Why Did "Rebels" Use Chemicals? We Finally Have an Answer (81 comments)

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  •  I do not think "conspiracy theory" (10+ / 0-)

    Means what you think it means.

    Whether true or not, General Keane's theory is plausible and does not defy common sense.

    •  And it's not proven, either (7+ / 0-)

      is it?

      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

      by lunachickie on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 11:21:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A theory can be unproven (5+ / 0-)

        Without being a conspiracy theory.

        It's perfectly okay to form a hypothesis that is reasonably consistent with known facts but requires the acquisition of more information to prove or disprove it.  It's possible Keane has access to information unknown to us that help him to form his theory.

        I don't assert that the theory is correct, I just assert that it passes whatever you want to call it...the eyeball test, the smell test...so that it can't be automatically dispensed with as ridiculous conspiracy theory.

        •  asdf (5+ / 0-)
          It's possible Keane has access to information unknown to us that help him to form his theory
          Sure, it's possible, but it's not definitive and it isn't proven. Ergo, it is theory.

          "Conspiracy Theory" as a phrase is a redundancy used as pejorative, designed to cast an unflattering light on ideas or the people putting such ideas forth. Yet the idea of calling things out as CT is done all the time around here, and on ideas with far more to support them than that messy spin diary from yesterday.

          So, y'know, the flip faux-witticism of your subject line in this particular thread was--sorry--just sort of pointless.  

          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

          by lunachickie on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 11:58:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You sound a bit like (3+ / 0-)

            Christian conservatives pooh-poohing evolution for being a "theory".

            I would reserve "conspiracy theory" for those theories whose basic thrust has been debunked, requiring deeper and more elaborate conspiracies to explain what is going on.  Even if he is wrong, Keane's theory does not rise to the level of what I would consider CT.

            •  (Pronoun) (adverb)(adjective) (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sandino, CIndyCasella

              (insulting comparison) (faulty reasoning).

              Why is it that some of you continue to labor under the delusion that responses framed in such a way makes you look smarter than everyone else? It really doesn't.

              And even if this general is wrong, the "conventional definition" of "Conspiracy Theory" in today's sophist political lexicon is, at best, specious. I'm always happy to see who supports its continued incorrect usage and who does not.

              This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

              by lunachickie on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 01:04:26 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  You refer to previous "UN investigations" (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              native, Timaeus

              implicating the rebels in chemical attacks. That's highly misleading. One former UN commissioner, Rosa de la Ponte, has expressed the opinion the rebels must have been responsible-- but she is not speaking for the UN and presents no evidence to support her argument. She's pretty eccentric, too--she insisted Milosevic and Serbs were innocent victims of the Kosovars.

              Your willingness to seize upon this one opinion and misrepresent it as the conclusion of "UN investigations" at the least suggests an inclination towards wishful CT thinking.

              Incidentally, I can accept that it is far more likely the chemical attack was ordered by Maher al-Assad without concluding that we have no choice but to attack to punish the Assad regime. That's because I see no reason to expect such a punitive attack would accomplish nothing.

              The world is complicated, and matters are not always as we would wish them to be.

        •  It's also possible that... (5+ / 0-)

          Keane is a warmonger and he's lying.  I prefer to have my 'slam-dunk' a little more slammed and dunked.

          "There never was a good war or a bad peace." ~Benjamin Franklin

          by kharma on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 12:06:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I studied physics and math in college, and I know (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kharma, Sandino, native, aliasalias

      what a theory is vs. proven fact.  The propagandists are
      exploiting most folks' lack of math and logic skills to turn theory into fact, fact into theory, and censor debate.

      Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

      by CIndyCasella on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 11:47:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nor does the assumption that the evidence is fake (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      native, aliasalias, CIndyCasella

      Once Obama stated the 'red line' the 'rebels' and neocons knew exactly what they had to do. Given recent history, it is not at all extraordinary to look for another false flag operation meant to give cover to the long-term goal. There is also substantial evidence that both their intel and CW come fromGen. Idris Salim.

      The general is this war's Curveball, the source for fabricated WMD claims, and possibly the 'rebel' responsible for their actual use, since he claimed his rebels had knowledge of all the chem. weapons in Assad's arsenal.

      Idris defected — at least publicly — from Assad’s army last July, around the same time as then CIA Director David Petraeus and then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton unsuccessfully lobbied to start arming the rebels, and the month before Obama laid out chemical weapon use as his “red line.”
      Idris was elected — thanks to a lot of arm twisting by US and its allies — to command the Free Syrian Army in December, just weeks after a chemical weapons incident I’ve been obsessing on. Shortly after his election, Idris gave a number of interviews in which he emphasized two things: that his people had an eye on Assad’s CW, and that Assad would use them if he got cornered.

      The new Syrian rebel commander has told The Associated Press that his fighters are monitoring the regime’s chemical weapons sites, but don’t have the means to seize and secure them.

      Gen. Salim Idris, who defected from the Syrian army in July, says he is “very afraid” a cornered regime will use chemical weapons in Syria’s civil war. Syria is said to have one of the world’s largest chemical arsenals.
      Effectively, Idris was repeating the line intelligence analysts had given just weeks earlier (or they had been repeating what he told them), even while suggesting his men were the ones watching over the CW.
      It was pretty clearly a set up, given the focus on getting that red line crossed to get the US to intervene in the civil war.  No, the neocons will not stop fabricating WMD propaganda to start wars.  They brag about it, and they're doing it again.

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