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View Diary: Obama says he will make case for Syria attack on Tuesday from White House (229 comments)

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  •  Dude. Chemical Weapons predate Nuclear weapons. (8+ / 0-)

    Are you prepared to attack anyone who uses a nuke?  

    Selectively attacking people (because it fits an agenda that you already have) is a load of dingo's kidneys.  

    The US has been through enough.  And why is the chemical weapon threshold the line in the sand?

    What do you hope to accomplish with limited strikes?  (I actually know the answer to that, but our attempts at "Regime Change" historically haven't worked out so well.)

    Give it a rest, Mr. President.  Walk away from AUMF.

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 07:35:28 AM PDT

    •  I think it goes without saying (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Blue Dream

      that any rogue state that springs a nuke attack would suffer military retribution. Chemical weapon threshold is a line in the sand because there is no defense against it (especially Sarin). This is why Assad has claimed to agree to allow the UN to investigate, even he understands the shitstorm that would be visited upon him if there is ever proof that chemical weapons attacks on civilians is his official policy.

      •  you keep saying there is no defense (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bobdevo, corvo

        there is.  My god stop the nonsense.

        •  Please euclidiate. /nt (0+ / 0-)

          Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
          I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
          —Spike Milligan

          by polecat on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 07:54:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I have (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo

            Depending on proximity, Gas mask, avoiding skin exposure, simply moving upwind.  You get out of the area.

            Yes chemical weapons are nasty obscene weapons, truly horrible, but so is all other types of weapons as well. This whole notion that being blown to bits, or set on fire is some how more civilized is ridiculous.

            •  So if everyone duct-tapes themselves into their (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Blue Dream

              homes (never mind having actual lives) ALL THE TIME (because you never know when a noise-less, odor-less attack will occur), never goes outside, has gas masks, magically doesn't live in the target area, they'll be okay?

              Nice survival plan.  Tell me how that works for you.

              Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
              I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
              —Spike Milligan

              by polecat on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 08:02:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  noise-less? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                corvo

                what are you talking about?

                If you are being shelled by napalm, you think its more civilized?  Thats what you are arguing.  If only they were shelling our neighborhood with a gasoline jelly that burns you alive, yeah, well then we could go about enjoying our afternoons/

                Yeah, nice plan, Tell me how i works out for you.

                •  Sarin, Vx, other war gasses. (0+ / 0-)

                  In case you haven't been paying attention, this diary is about Syria and Sarin.

                  Nice attempt to change the subject and dig yourself out of a hole.

                  Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
                  I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
                  —Spike Milligan

                  by polecat on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 09:50:29 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  yeah I know (0+ / 0-)

                    you obviously dont even understand how these ordnances are delivered.

                    As for changing the subject? I didn't, the subject at hand is you are claiming one method of killing is so much worse than others, that we should risk going to war over it.

                    Here lets have a real expert weigh in on the subject... and of course show just how wrong your are on it

                    http://www.dailykos.com/...

                    •  Let me count the ways: (0+ / 0-)

                      1) shell - howitzer or mortar.  If it doesn't explode when it lands, it's just sort of a big crunch.
                      2) bomb - dropped from a plane presumably.  you hear a plane overhead and eventually a crunch (or not depending upon parachutes)
                      3) missile - another big crunch when the spent pieces hit the ground, but not an explosion unless patriot missiles were fired at it (and THEY explode -- almost all of them missed during Gulf War I, btw)
                      4) timer - just like a car bomb but without the bang.

                      None of those delivery methods for Sarin seem all that loud unless your house is where the ordinance came down.  It's not like a fuel-air explosion.

                      (Oh, and I'm an engineer -- don't give me crap about not knowing how this stuff works.)

                      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
                      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
                      —Spike Milligan

                      by polecat on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 01:36:17 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

              •  so.. (0+ / 0-)

                I guess you are ok then with napalm? Or should we intervene if that is used too?   Last I checked it is an equally gruesome way to go.

            •  That's all well and good (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              polecat

              if one is aware that an attack is underway. I know of no record of nerve agent attacks that have been undertaken with prior knowledge on the part of the targets of the attacks.

              A gas mask alone will not protect you from Sarin. Sealing one's self form skin exposure is difficult enough, but minuscule amounts of nerve gas can be lethal so good luck with all that.

              Moving upwind will only occur to people who are watching others foam at the mouth. At which point they may already have been exposed.

              •  you have no record of world war 1? really (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                corvo

                Yeah sarin can be lethal, but so can all other ordinances.

                Do you have any idea what napalm is?  You know the stuff we dropped all over North Vietnam?  Next time you go to a catered event. Look at the heating dishes, You know that round little disk under the roast , that blue jell thing that is on fire putting out incredible heat.  Well thats basically the same idea as napalm.

                So imagining having that goo explode all over your self and family while it on fire, burning through everything it touches.  and thats civilized to you.  

                •  WTF? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  polecat

                  Could you BE any further afield? You went from claiming that nerve agent was plenty easy to defend oneself from, to claiming that I'm a cheerleader for Napalm.

                  I said I have no record of "NERVE AGENT" being used when the people targeted were made aware of it's presence. You refer to WWI (mustard gas, cyanide, and chlorine gas) for some reason and then jump to napalm.

                  Does this mean that if Assad has used napalm on his own people you'd support military intercession? Is napalm your "bright red line?"

            •  I don't think the children... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              polecat

              on the videos were military men who would have been provided with gas masks or simply run themselves 'upwind'.

              They were in their homes man...  This is a factor, isn't it?

              Education is the progressive discovery of our own ignorance. -Will Durant

              by Blue Dream on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 08:15:15 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  yeah horrible right (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                corvo

                exactly, but people are killed in their homes via other weapons of war as well,  So whats your point.

                Mine is, its all insanity.  There isnt good ways to kill people and bad ways,  but rather only bad ways.

            •  If chemical weapons aren't that different (0+ / 0-)

              Then maybe we should leave the treaty banning chemical weapons and use them in place of conventional weapons whenever they turn out to be cheaper.  What is the cost of sarin when compared to drones?

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