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View Diary: Why I support authorizing the President to use military force in Syria (186 comments)

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  •  Peope need to know this (22+ / 0-)
    we've been heavily involved in Syria since 2011. We were training, arming, providing intel and transport to Syrians in Lebanon and Jordan. We were using deceptive electronic weapons on Assad's military sites and various armies. We even armed locals, some of whom hate us more than they hate Assad.
    And who knows?  If we hadn't been meddling would Assad have used the CW?  

    We don't have the whole story.  Few people do.  The CIA is all over this.  Much of the information will probably be classified for decades.  

    We don't know how we got here.  All we know is we're being manipulated into ADDING another war to the wars we are already fighting and have been fighting for 12 years.  

    I was on board for year one when this was all about 9/11.  But we have been used.  We have been conned.  We have been fighting for interests that are not mine.  We have no moral authority.   We had that on 9/11 and we blew it off because other interests had other agendas.  

    •  All military actions are not the same. (9+ / 0-)

      It must be nice to be able to put them all in the same box but the world doesn't work that way.

      •  one common denominator is that innocents die. (14+ / 0-)

        Interestingly, that seems to be unbelievably common.

        What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

        by agnostic on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 12:25:43 PM PDT

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        •  Innocents are dying...in huge numbers (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          seanwright, ronnied

          Pretending they won;t die if the US does nothing is...crazy.

          The hope is that fewer will die if do something, We know the killing will go on if we do nothing, but we don't know what will happen if we do something.

          Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

          by FischFry on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 02:03:59 PM PDT

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          •  I think we do know (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VeloDramatic, dewley notid, agnostic

            what will happen if we launch attacks. I think we've seen the theory of our enormous fire power ending violence for what it is, a lie. In Vietnam we were constantly told that the more we bombed the sooner the war would end. A decade later there was no end in sight. We couldn't even VISUALIZE the end of the tunnel much less see it.

            These wars are built to last. They are self-generating products of a military industrial death machine. The targets we destroy never make the difference we were hoping for. The more we arm one side or several sides, the more the heavy hitters of the East arm the other side.

            Chemical weapons are manufactured products provided illegally by the scum of the earth. It is they who need to be singled out, rounded up and done away with. It is precisely the fact that we NEVER DO THAT, we never do away with illegal arms trafficking, sneering, "we can't do anything about corruption," that shows we will have an enduring hell-hole in the Middle East as long as we keep applying explosives.

            And I agree with those here who see the CIA's slobber all over this mess. I see it in the smiles and the difficulty keeping a straight face when people like Nancy Pelosi tell us more children are going to be killed if we don't pony up. I believe her. I believe this will continue until we get to the people who cause it.

            •  You're wrong about where they get the stuff (0+ / 0-)

              They're almost certainly manufactured in Syria using imported everyday commercial chemical products like sodium flouride.

              CIA has nothing to do with it.

              Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

              by FischFry on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 07:37:42 PM PDT

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              •  The fact that any maniac or idiot (0+ / 0-)

                can make these things doesn't mean such idiots can become entrenched military dictatorships with enough fire power and advanced weaponry to threaten world peace without the involvement of the merchants of death. In my opinion the CIA works for those interests. I have come to that conclusion by noticing who benefits from their work.

                The most heinous features of the craven lawless bunch we call our previous administration include the fact that they personally provided Saddam Hussein with chemical and biological weapons precursors knowing he was a sadistic thug and then proceeded to arm both sides in the ensuing Iran/Iraq war, killing nearly a million people.

                Chemical weapons are used by well-outfitted sadists empowered by an unregulated weapons cartel that arms everyone. They have no loyalties.

      •  Well, since you know how the world works (12+ / 0-)

        Given that we are embarking on year 13 of perpetual war how many more decades and deployments of the Minnesota National Guard are you going to need to get the middle east working just exactly how you want it and are you going to fully fund the VA through the many decades after you have fixed the middle east or might you just forget about that end of the deal?  You know we're still caring for the veterans of WWII so I figure we are committed for the next 70 years already.  

        Just keep that tax revenue coming from the 50 states not in the middle east.

        •  Remind me again how many troops will be going (0+ / 0-)

          into Syria?  TIA.

          •  We don't even know how many are there now (7+ / 0-)

            I mean they might not be calling them combat troops but special ops?  CIA?  Support troops already in Iraq and Jordan.  People say this isn't Iraq.  Ha!  Our embassy in Iraq is a military base which we're using to do whatever and the American people don't know what whatever is.  We don't know how many will get called up to support this mission if it's ongoing.  

            That's a big reason there is so much opposition.  We're not getting the whole story.  

          •  a shitload more than none (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Johnny Q

            Kerry has already qualified his "no boots on the ground" pronouncement. And once they get started, they will certainly use ground troops.  They already are using CIA and/or Special Ops boots on the ground.  

            Power to the Peaceful!

            by misterwade on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 02:03:49 PM PDT

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            •  Really? And you know this how? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              seanwright

              Which Special Ops troops are there?  CIA may be there but they're everywhere but as far as active military goes, bupkiss.  The concern is that Johnny down the block will be fighting Assad.  Not going to happen now, not going to happen later.  And yes, this can be assured.   Not a single troop is required to come within 500 miles of Syria to carry out what is currently being proposed.

              •  oh come on. you are not that dense. (0+ / 0-)

                In Libya, we had boots (perhaps designer british Cheney hand made shoes) on the ground long before we sent in rescue squads to grab those pilots that crashed and parachuted after an air attack. We had intel coming in, laser guiding on critical locations, and contacts, PERSONAL contacts with those we hoped would become our allies.

                All the news reports hinted at a long effort on our part (and the brits) and there was no other way we could have been so successful.  the Benghazi attack? no doubt retribution for our successful efforts over many years.

                What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

                by agnostic on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 06:27:48 PM PDT

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      •  You're right: this one is particularly heinous (7+ / 0-)

        Exploiting the civil unrest in a country and sending the worst elements in to sow chaos - mercenaries, Jihadists, Al-Qaeda members, convicted murderers and rapists.

        Here are some of the actions committed by the people we are funding and supporting:

        Syrian Rebels Mutilating Bodies
        Syrian Rebels Caught Using Captured Prisoners As Suicide Bombers
        Syrian Rebels Torturing a Prisoner
        Syrian Rebels Tie a Prisoner to the Front of a Tank

        •  What evidence do you have that the US directly (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          seanwright

          funds those particular rebels?

          InAntalya, an American living in Turkey, posted this diary today describing the many rebel groups in Syria.

          How do we find out which of those groups gets funding from the USA?

          “We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children” ― Chief Seattle

          by SoCalSal on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 01:32:29 PM PDT

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          •  I doubt the U.S. itself knows (5+ / 0-)

            Since the Syrian opposition is so chaotic and fractured.

            Direct U.S. funding supposedly goes through the Free Syrian Army (FSA). The FSA is often characterized as moderate and secular, but in reality, at least half of the FSA's forces are made up of a subgroup of Islamist fighters, the Syrian Islamic Liberation Front (SILF).

            Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia has funded a competing hardline Islamist group, The Syrian Islamic Front (SIF, not to be confused with SILF). Considering the close ties between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, it's hard to say this is happening without our knowledge.

            There was also a report that Saudi Arabia sent 1,200 death row inmates to Syria (maybe as part of SIF?).

            The Muslim Brotherhood, funded by Qatar is also extremely powerful and has been called the "dominant force" in distributing supplies and weapons.

            And keep in mind, all these Islamist factions don't even take into account the actual terrorist groups operating in Syria. al-Nusra is often mentioned, but more recently Al-Qaeda in Iraq (the Islamic state of Iraq) has entered the conflict as well.

            Add in the Kurdish fighters pursuing their own agenda, the Mossad agents that are on the ground (according to the head of the FSA), Hezbollah, and behind the scenes, the backing and control of various factions by the U.S., Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, Russia and Iran, and it's quite a complex and volatile situation.

      •  some are much worse than others and we have (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Johnny Q, dewley notid

        no guarantees after the bombing starts on Syria as to what may happen.

        "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand?" David Crosby

        by allenjo on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 12:46:07 PM PDT

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