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View Diary: The warmonger's lament (268 comments)

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  •  How is seeing the policy choice I prefer coming to (10+ / 0-)

    pass being wrong?  

    No attacks on Syria, supposedly.  
    Chemical weapons supposedly coming under control.

    Both are policies which I, and many many other Kossacks, favored very strongly.

    We could argue endlessly about whether the right path to get there was chosen, but what matters is that good policy outcomes are taking place.

    If anyone is "wrong," it might be those who once insisted that Assad had to be punished in order to stiffle the use of chemical weapons. Now there's no punishment in order, but the weapons will be under control.

    "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

    by YucatanMan on Mon Sep 16, 2013 at 07:33:07 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Face it. You were wrong. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tony Situ

      Obama got us here with the red line.
      You can't be right all the time. You can try like hell to bamboozle.

      Betchu REALLY wanna vote, now.

      by franklyn on Mon Sep 16, 2013 at 07:52:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wasn't the purpose of the bright red line (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sandino, Johnny Q, Nailbanger, DeadHead

        to warn Assad against using chemical weapons?

        Meaning that Assad should not use chemical weapons without suffering some sort of reprisal?  So, no reprisal, 1429 people dead, chemical weapons removed (we hope) from Syria's control... that is the red line being successful?

        "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

        by YucatanMan on Mon Sep 16, 2013 at 09:20:01 PM PDT

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        •  The reprisal that you were against? (0+ / 0-)

          The threat of imminent reprisal which brought about the chemical weapons being removed?
          I don't know about you, but I call winning success.
          I know you're hurting, but get over it. On this one, Obama's the man!

          Betchu REALLY wanna vote, now.

          by franklyn on Mon Sep 16, 2013 at 09:53:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There's no one - zero Democrats - opposed (5+ / 0-)

            to removing chemical weapons from Syria (and everywhere else, I'd guess). No one.

            I'm not "hurting" about anything at all.  Everyone is glad we are not engaging in a new war or even a teenie-tiny strike.

            The logic of this being "the red line winning" is hard to follow. In the middle of this, 1429 people were killed by chemical weapons. I don't see how that is winning, certainly not for the red line. They did die after the red line was announced.

            What is good is that:

            1) No US strikes, for now, against Syria.
            2) Chemical weapons to be removed from Assad's control. (hasn't happened yet though)

            Those are good. Those are "wins" for the USA. No one in America is hurting over those. The strange need to cast this as some sort of sports match with shouting winners and downfaced losers is just odd.

            To me, this is all about No More People Dying, especially at our hands. And to that end, the solution, so far, seems to be working.  

            "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

            by YucatanMan on Mon Sep 16, 2013 at 10:18:41 PM PDT

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            •  Thank goodness for Obama's and Kerry's wisdom. (0+ / 0-)

              Play your games. You and I know what all this about. I've read your stuff and it's all there.

              Betchu REALLY wanna vote, now.

              by franklyn on Mon Sep 16, 2013 at 10:28:06 PM PDT

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            •  That's why the opposite sides of the (0+ / 0-)

              Great Divide not only won't agree (in 90% of cases) but won't even be able to have a rational conversation. Because your side thinks like this:

              The strange need to cast this as some sort of sports match with shouting winners and downfaced losers is just odd.

              To me, this is all about No More People Dying, especially at our hands. And to that end, the solution, so far, seems to be working.  

              And the other side thinks like this:
               Still sucks being WRONG! nt

              The party of Kennedy is also the party of Eastland. The party of Javits is also the party of Goldwater. Where is our party? Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march on Washington?

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 10:46:25 AM PDT

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        •  You aren't getting 11th-dimensional enough (0+ / 0-)

          but you're also not arguing with someone who is interested in logic.  See my comment below.

          The party of Kennedy is also the party of Eastland. The party of Javits is also the party of Goldwater. Where is our party? Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march on Washington?

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 10:43:37 AM PDT

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      •  Bit of a "Mission Accomplished" moment? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        YucatanMan, Johnny Q

        The trouble with wanting all the credit is we'll know where to place the blame if things go wrong, as they always do in the middle east.

        The only way to win is not to play.

      •  What? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Johnny Q

        OK, this is some of the lamest logic I've ever seen.

        It goes something like this:

        Obama threatened war to make Assad back down re: chemical weapons.

        He didn't really want to go to war.

        He and Kerry, et al, had to sound really bellicose to scare Putin and Assad into backing down.

        But he really didn't want to go to war.

        So he was counting on opposition in  Congress, among the American people, and among foreign allies to keep the missiles from actually being launched before Putin & Assad got yellow and caved.

        Eleventy-dimensional chess FTW!

        But if that's the argument of what happened, then Yucatan Man, myself, and all the other opponents of war here, in Britain, and elsewhere, were not only not WRONG, we were playing a key role in Mr. Obama's plan.

        In fact, we were pushing for the very same result the President was.

        So....you shouting BUUUURRRRRNN!!!!! IN YOUR FAAAACE!!! seems particularly weird in this case.

        Which was it--did Obama want the war or not?

        The party of Kennedy is also the party of Eastland. The party of Javits is also the party of Goldwater. Where is our party? Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march on Washington?

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 10:40:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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