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View Diary: The warmonger's lament (268 comments)

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  •  Jesse, I love you like a brother, but... (1+ / 0-)
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    ...what you just said is nonsense.  The French and to a lesser extent the British (opposed by Keynes, who foresaw the devastation to be caused by punishing Germany) were the forces behind the punitive reparations laid on Germany.  It was a central goal of the French at the Paris Peace Conference to permanently cripple Germany militarily and economically.

    No need to charge through that giant book, Paris 1919.  If you do (almost 700 pages!), get the kindle.

    Instead, wikipedia as a pretty good summary of the shenanigans going on there.

    Another point, the Allies were on their way to defeating Germany on their own.  It might gall American pride a little, but it's the truth.  We were in on the kill, but most of the work had been done already.  Without American participation, things would have turned out pretty much the way they did anyway.  The war might have gone on another year, there might have been a socialist revolution in Germany...but the reparations would still have been imposed.

    Your underlying thesis, that World War II is the direct result of American involvement in World War I is, this is the politest term I can come up with, bullshit.

    For one, the causes of the Pacific war and the war in Europe were largely unconnected, despite the alliance between Japan and Germany.

    Japan lusted after China.  Japan had a choice to make as to who they'd attack in their search for natural resources to continue their forever-war with China:  north to the Soviet Union, south to the riches of European colonies.  They had been mauled in an brief war with the Soviet Union (Zhukov played a big part in this mauling - if you read up on World War II, you'll see his name come up again), so that didn't look like a good idea.  They knew the USA, which was already pro-Chinese, would likely respond with its military if the Japan moved south, so they decided to take us out as a way to ensure their uninterrupted looting of southern Asia.

    Why Hitler declared war on the USA after the Japanese attack, no one's yet to completely figure out.  His alliance with the Japanese was defensive, he was under no obligation to declare war on us.  Here's my best guess.  He had never been to the USA.  Hitler, in reality, was something of a parochial country bumpkin when it came to knowledge of the wider world.  His prejudices made him think we were a bunch of push-overs, a people constitutionally weak in the knees.  What could it hurt to pick a fight with us?

    Lastly, nothing is certain in history.  Hitler was unique in his ambitions.  It seems even his fellow fascist dictators did not share his desire for war in Europe.  Franco stayed neutral to the end, hell, he was the ruler of Spain until 1975.  Mussolini was only a reluctant participant initially.  If Germany had another leader, and this might have happened - ever wonder why Hitler had Röhm assassinated? - history would have been completely different.  A single man's ambitions drove World War II in Europe.

    So, like I said, your thinking on this matter, as much as I love you, is bullshit.

    Tell me what to write. 'To know what is right and to do it are two different things.' - Chushingura, a tale of The Forty-Seven Ronin

    by rbird on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 11:46:54 AM PDT

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    •  Now that is what I call a rebuttal (2+ / 0-)
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      rbird, Charles Hall

      You're on the money in every instance, including the judgement of Keynes, and the French desire for retribution. Hitler knew this. He made the French sign their capitulation in 1940 in the same railway carriages the Versailles treaty was signed.

      I see it as a bizarre inversion of American exceptionalism that the US is uniquely evil in its foreign policy decisions in the last century

      The Fall of the House of Murdoch -with Eric Lewis and all the latest Leveson evidence out now!

      by Brit on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 11:52:59 AM PDT

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      •  Normally I have great affection for Jesse... (1+ / 0-)
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        ...but this time he went way, way, way over the top.

        Tell me what to write. 'To know what is right and to do it are two different things.' - Chushingura, a tale of The Forty-Seven Ronin

        by rbird on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 12:00:04 PM PDT

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