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View Diary: 2 years since OWS began and 99 percent of us are still getting screwed (247 comments)

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  •  You obviously have not infrared yourself (12+ / 0-)

    sufficiently about anarchism to make an informed commentary.

    Anarchism is anti-capitalist, and does not support private ownership of the means of production. American style "libertarianism" (an oxymoron in that usage) is almost a polar opposite of anarchism, and more appropriately should be called "propertarianism".

    By the way, the original libertarians were and still are anti-capitalists, not right wing free market zealots. Outside of the US and internationally in anarchist literature, libertarian still is used in the original form that dates back to the mid 1800s in Europe.

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

    by ZhenRen on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 02:16:31 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Edit: "informed" yourself, not infrared. n/t (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayRaye, Cassiodorus, caul

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 02:17:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Tell that to libertarians like Penn Jillette. asdr (0+ / 0-)
      •  What does Jillette have to do with it (5+ / 0-)

        Libertarians are not anarchists. Not at all. Only those ignorant of one or the other, or both, would say they are.

        •  He claims he is both. (0+ / 0-)

          An anarcho-capitalist actually, but there you go. There is a breed of libertarian who are just as socially libertarian as they are economically so. I don't believe they see things on the economic side without a sort of naivety and a lack of skepticism regarding greed. And frankly, I'm still waiting to see any kind of a successful anarchist economic system. It hasn't happened yet. What makes you think it can now? What evidence are you basing this on?

          But one thing I wouldn't call folks like Jillette or Michael Shermer is ignorant. They are very intelligent and well spoken in other regards.

          •  I know what Anarcho-capitalists are, ugh (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JayRaye, ZhenRen, Laconic Lib, BlueDragon, caul

            They're idiots that don't understand how the world works. You can't have property rights without government. And he, like many other, throw around the word without actually knowing what it means. It's a trendy philosophy right now and the right is trying to capitalize on that, pun entirely intended ;)

            But really it's a PR ploy like when they coopted the word libertarian. The right wing libertarians actually bragged about what a coup it was that they'd tricked people into identifying the anti-regulation right wing as libertarian.

            •  I'm sure Jillette has a good idea what he's saying (0+ / 0-)

              I may not agree with him on a lot of things economically, but he certainly is not an idiot.You may not agree with him either but I think you can find hours of him at least detailing his positions. He is quite rational on most other things. He may have a definition of the term other than what you are familiar with.

              But again, please remind me which anarchist economic system are you talking about which is successfully in play. What anarchist method of government is helping what developed nation to thrive?

              •  There were the large sections of Spain (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ZhenRen, BlueDragon, JayRaye, caul

                during the revolution/civil war to look at in terms of what an anarchist economic system would look like, though I wasn't actually talking about anarchist economic systems, I was talking about the difference between libertarians and anarchists and how libertarians aren't anarchists.

                And I doubt he does have an idea of what he's saying, not that I've heard him say that. But really, there's a bunch of libertarians going around claiming to be anarchists now and they just plain aren't. He happens to be one of the people who doesn't know what he's talking about. He is not that smart.

                He may have a definition of the term other than what you are familiar with.
                Yes, like I said, a right wing definition that isn't actually correct. They decided that anarchists were cool and so they took the name, just like with libertarians last century.
    •  Look at when civil rights and the middle class... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      isabelle hayes

      ...came of age. We flourished under capitalism where the capital at the highest incomes was heavily taxed, when we made the investments in education and infrastructure that made us into a nation unlike any other for two + generations. That version of capitalism, with strong unions serving as a counterbalance to government and industry, served as the model taken by European and the Japanese recipients of the Marshall Plan and became Democratic Socialism.

      I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Well regulated capitalism with progressive taxation and capital gains, when also highly taxed at the high end until they depreciate to encourage development of them rather than flipping them, changed the world as we know it. And can do so again. And now with the Internet and modern communications we stand to make it ever more transparent and fairer if we, the citizens, take the reigns back into our own hands.

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