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View Diary: 2 years since OWS began and 99 percent of us are still getting screwed (247 comments)

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  •  Sure, here it is. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ZhenRen

    Since only lawmakers can make laws, and only the government can prosecute, I'd focus on them.

    I'd only vote for candidates who promise to change the laws that allow this to continue and to prosecute those who break the laws.

    If they don't do that, I would vote against them next election. I wouldn't accept bullshit excuses or inaction. They can do it or not, but if they don't, they're out come next election.

    Of course, my plan will never be implemented. No one would ever go along with it.

    •  If it can't be implemented then it isn't (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ZhenRen, JayRaye, Johnny Q, Lefty Coaster, caul

      a very good plan, with all respect. I mean, that sounds like a dream more than a plan.

      •  You're right, it isn't a very good plan. (0+ / 0-)

        Unfortunately, there is literally no other way -- laws can only be changed by lawmakers.

        •  And law makers can be pressured in ways other (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JayRaye, congenitalefty, caul

          than by votes. I mean, that's exactly how we got to where we are now, isn't it? If voting was the only way then corporations wouldn't have the control they do.

          •  I think you misunderstood my plan. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            congenitalefty

            If we followed my plan, Barack Obama would never have been reelected.

            Perhaps we would have suffered through four years of Mitt Romney, but you can be damn sure the next one will get the message: fix the problems, or you're out.

            The real beauty of it is that after one election cycle, screw ups made by anyone can always be fixed immediately -- the next candidate will be acutely aware that if she doesn't fix it, it's over with come November.

            The myth that things just can't be fixed is a lie told by politicians so you'll think they're obligated to fuck you over.

            The truth is, the system is very simple: they have the power to change and enforce any and every law. Don't believe them when they say they can't.

            •  I totally understand your plan (1+ / 0-)
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              JayRaye

              I was just noting that there are ways other than elections and voting to pressure politicians.

              •  What are those other ways? (0+ / 0-)

                Self preservation is the only principle that politicians adhere to with total consistency.

                Is there a way to put more pressure a politician than the threat of being fired?

                •  General strikes (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JayRaye

                  Debt strikes, mass protest to some extent. Boycotts.

                  Is there a way to put more pressure a politician than the threat of being fired?
                  If you've got enough people to fire the politician then you've got a shit ton of people and you can do a whole lot more.
                  •  file under "assume a can opener." (0+ / 0-)
                    •  Which is what people calling for (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JayRaye

                      electoral solutions are doing too. I was asked how politicians could be influenced outside voting, I answered. I never said it was easy or that we could do it immediately. But we can't get a progressive majority in government at any time in the foreseeable future either. Unless you have an idea you've been hiding while making sniping comments from the sidelines this whole time. Or is your solution doing the same thing everyone has been doing? The one that hasn't been working.

                  •  Do boycotts pressure politicians? (0+ / 0-)

                    Perhaps they do to some extent, but you can't seriously argue that it's anywhere approaching the pressure of losing an election.

                    Let me ask you this -- who do you believe possesses the greatest ability to fix the problem?

                    To me, I don't think it's even debatable. It is lawmakers.

                    Banks will always push the absolute limits of the law, at an absolute minimum. And that's true for everyone. People don't drive 30 in a 55. They do the speed limit at a minimum.

                    I mean, do you know of a way to make them behave differently that will work better than changing the law?

                    •  You assume we can force a politician to lose (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JayRaye

                      And yes, I think it can force politicians to act. But remember that politicians aren't the enemy, corporations are. Politicians are a means to an end, which is to check the power of corporations that are destroying poor people and the middle class. Relegating the whole of the fight to government is going to be a losing proposition.

                      •  Corporations are not the enemy. (0+ / 0-)

                        You must understand that corporations are amoral and do not existence beyond a legal context. They're a legal fiction, an imaginary entity through which transactions flow.

                        This makes them an obvious choice to be the scapegoat for corruption. As long as politicians can blame that scary monster hiding up in the mountains, the status quo will continue.

                        •  Corporations are a legal form created specifically (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          JayRaye

                          to minimize accountability and to facilitate oppression through colonialism. Corporations are immoral because they're amoral. They are the ones oppressing people and funneling money to the rich, the politicians just abet them in their crimes. Certainly, politicians are complicit, but the corporate form is not good, it contributes to the corruption in our society necessarily and always has.

            •  we already suffered through reagan, bush, and too (0+ / 0-)

              many corporate dems. milions in streets and countless hours spent fighting republican right corporate crap with little or no gain.

              if you don't challenge the main tool by which they keep excusing their behavior and repeating it it just happens over and over. until the left pulls it's ipods out of it's ears and challenges the radio it's going to keep wasting its time and resources and the right will keep kicking internet ass, beating down good progressive candidates and electing corrupt sex on the wrong brain loons.

              This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

              by certainot on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 03:54:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What are you talking about? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AoT

                Which Republican forced Obama and Holder to decide that the banks were too big to prosecute?

                •  millions of liberals and progressives and so-calle (0+ / 0-)

                  d liberals and defenders of democracy and freedom who voted for obama enabled it.

                  they continue to allow hundreds of carnival barkers standing on every corner and stump in the country, right in your own neighborhood if you live in the USA, lie about and threaten obama all day long, enabling and empowering the banks and their high paid shits to spit on democracy, forcing compromise.

                  get some perspective. there's a shitload of stuff that can't be fixed as long as the left ignores radio. there will be no major reform until then. do something productive instead of sniping at the best president we've had in decades. complain about republicans instead.

                  but don't feel bad, there's a lot of you out there.

                  This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                  by certainot on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 04:31:36 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Stop deflecting with vagueness. (0+ / 0-)

                    Do you deny that Obama and Holder chose not to prosecute the banks for fraud?

                    •  they also didn't declare there is no god (0+ / 0-)

                      and they didn't prosecute the bush or reagan administrations, nor did obama get single payer, nor did liberals get media reform, or election reform, nor energy reform, and on and fucking on.

                      This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                      by certainot on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 05:58:46 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  The difference being that the decision to (0+ / 0-)

                        prosecute is left completely to the discretion of the executive branch. No one else can do it, and no one else can decide.

                        But by all means, keep on apologizing for the President.

                        •  it's the same dynamic at work: even if he wanted (0+ / 0-)

                          to how many of those battles can be won? could denis kucinich do it even if he wanted to? is that a battle that would have been easier with raising taxes on the 1% and reregulation- made impossible when a pack of ratfucks stayed out of the 2010 elections because obama didn't kick 1% ass when he marched into the white billionaire's house?  was obamacare more important? how far would a real investigation go? how many and who's swiss and cayman bank accounts would be exposed? where's that money coming from? how much CIA money is being laundered? maybe the geithners and summers might have been better able to give a better description of the size of the corruption and number of grand inherited fortunes involved and they gave him their honest opinions. or maybe they dissuaded him from getting wellstoned.

                          i don't know, but i do know it doesn't matter who you put in there as long as the 1% can take free pot shots at him all day from 1000 invisible radio stations.

                          until the 1%'s best weapon is recognized and challenged don't expect shit. blaming obama is a cop out.

                          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                          by certainot on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 07:18:16 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

    •  Well, I'll join you in that. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayRaye, AoT

      That's my approach, and has been for a few years. But the grip on the electoral process is too complete, and even good people elected into office consistently fail, and many become corrupted by the influence of money on the process.

      Decades have gone by while we witness the electoral process becoming more and more corrupt and under the control of the oligarchy. It is so broken using that approach alone will not likely succeed.

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 02:38:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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