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View Diary: I don't think the words in Thessalonians 3:10 mean what you think they mean (125 comments)

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  •  Um....not quite. (7+ / 0-)

    Hippolytus of Rome (died c. 236 AD) wrote that John, Matthew, Simon (the Zealot, not Simon Peter), and Thaddeus all died natural deaths.

    Eastern tradition suggests that Simon died a natural death at Edessa.

    The Catholic Church says it is "unclear" whether Matthew was martyred or died a natural death.

    Several sources suggest that John died a natural death in Ephesus.

    Obviously, we don't have a clear record that all of the apostles were "murdered soon after Jesus departed."

    I'm also wondering what you consider "soon." Errant Skeptics' summary of New Testament chronology suggests that John wrote several New Testament books almost 60 years after the Crucifixion (92 AD).

    The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

    by wesmorgan1 on Sat Sep 21, 2013 at 07:15:52 PM PDT

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    •  Where is the body of their work (1+ / 0-)
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      or records of their personal testimonies?  Peter did live long enough to spread the word, but it's only Paul, who left the area whose letters and works survive to this day and his guidance has become the basis for the faith today.

      It's true that the early church banned several of the written Gospels that circulated widely, but differed from "approved" doctrine, but some are being discovered and show that Pauls point of view and teachings weren't universal at the time or for many hundreds of years later.

      There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

      by Puddytat on Sat Sep 21, 2013 at 10:46:54 PM PDT

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      •  Um...I ddin't argue any of those points. (1+ / 0-)
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        I merely said that there wasn't any strong evidence that they were ALL "murdered soon after Jesus departed."  We simply don't know.

        As far as their possible body of work is concerned, the Christian canon includes later works by John and Jude (Thaddeus) - as far as the others are concerned, who knows?   Perhaps they didn't feel the need to write followup letters, as Paul did.  In some cases, perhaps they "stayed local" to one area.  In others, they may have been lost or (as you noted) condemned as heresy at some early church council.

        Their absence does not, however, imply that they weren't around, nor that does it imply that they were all put to death soon after Jesus departed.

        The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

        by wesmorgan1 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 at 05:20:19 AM PDT

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    •  Mmm, yeah, and Jesus' brother James (1+ / 0-)
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      lasted quite a while - tussling with Paul for control of the emerging "church," didn't he? James in Jerusalem viewing it as a Jewish organization and Paul cruising around the eastern Mediterranean roping in the gentiles.

      "Injustice wears ever the same harsh face wherever it shows itself." - Ralph Ellison

      by KateCrashes on Sun Sep 22, 2013 at 05:54:33 AM PDT

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