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View Diary: I don't think the words in Thessalonians 3:10 mean what you think they mean (125 comments)

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  •  It's more complex than that (5+ / 0-)

    There are several traditions of what Jesus said/taught preserved in the New Testament -- & other early Christian writings. Each of the Gospels preserve parts of four of them -- the traditions associated with Peter (Mark), the Jewish Christians, many of whom were associated with James the Brother of Jesus (Matthew), with Paul (Luke & Acts), & more mystical strains (John).

    And there appear to be a few traditions which didn't survive, such as those associated with John the Baptist--for example, Apollos is described in Acts as a follower of John the Baptist, which is different from how the other Christians are described.

    Then there is the evidence of the Gospel of Thomas, with a number of sayings or parables than experts believe are similar, but independent, of those in the canonical New Testament.

    Then, in the early years of Christianity doctrine & facts was altered. The fact that Jesus had a brother (he's described as his brother clearly in 3 of the 4 gospels) complicated things for those who wanted to believe that Mary had no other children & that there was something special about the birth of Jesus -- which is why James the Just started getting written out of the history books of Christianity in the Fourth Century. Sorta like Trotsky was written out of the history of the Russian Revolution.

    I'm rambling here, but I would like to close with one further detail: many religious scholars -- the ones who teach at real seminaries, not Liberty College or Oral Robert's University -- don't consider 2 Thessalonians to have been written by Paul, but by one of his followers. Just something to think about.

    •  I didn't want to get that complex (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JVolvo, llywrch

      since I reserve complexities and extensive detailing for diaries rather than comments, but yes, you're correct.  

      The point I was trying to make is that much of religious doctrine is based on the ideas of men rather than the teachings of Jesus.

      There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

      by Puddytat on Sun Sep 22, 2013 at 01:55:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I wouldn't argue that point (0+ / 0-)

        I forget which expert said it, but there is surprisingly little information about exactly what Jesus' message was. As in, what did he have to say about faith, ethics, etc. There is far more about his death & resurrection--& being a manifestation of God--than about what he said.

        And despite popular belief, one thing he didn't say was that people should be more kind to each other. Most of his most earliest attested & most likely sayings are about people not believing him, fire & brimstone about the End Times, comparisons to the Kingdom of God, & a lot of parables whose meaning in the Gospels is different from non-canonical sources (like the Gospel of Thomas) drawn from an independent tradition.

        Human opinion has acted as a filter on what Jesus said from the beginning of the records. Sorta like how it happens in non-religious matters, such as politics: everyone, including the thoughtful & intelligent, as well as the crazies & the lunatic fringe, have their say.

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