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View Diary: Thanatos: this is the end (160 comments)

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  •  Maybe a US breakup would be best (14+ / 0-)

    for all of us (evenutally), especially the rest of the world. We have the choice to break up peacefully (has that ever happened anywhere in the world) or like Eastern Europe after the USSR broke up (Serbs vs Croats vs Hersevigonia vs Muslims vs etc. etc.

    The US is really too big to survive as a "free" society. By being so huge and with a truly unrealistic view of the rest of the world (blame lack of a education that includes a world view), we tend to assume that force, provided by the US, will bend world wide forces to our will and make everyone love us. We have tried to become the police to the rest of the world, which the rest of world kind of resents.

    CA right now has the 8th or 9th largest economy in the world and could survive as its own country (probably). There are other areas that could become their own countries and manage to survive.

    But we would no longer be the leader of the free world. We would be third- or fourth-world countries, trying to survive like every other country that tries to protect itself from outside forces.

    I'm not sure I would want to be around while all this convulsion is occurring, but the potential for some good to come out of this is always a cause for hope.

    There is, unfortunately, just as much potential for evil/bad outcomes (dictatorships or worse), which can make for some very violent times. Perhaps this is what the "Rapture" believers are hoping for - the end of times.

    I reject your reality and substitute my own - Adam Savage

    by woolibaar on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 09:57:04 AM PDT

    •  I have thought for a long time that a breakup of (5+ / 0-)

      the US is inevitable and would not be such a bad thing. I would love to live in a country that wasn't controlled by a small cadre of wealthy people and where the majority didn't have to kowtow to a small number of right wing fanatics. Take the west coast states, maybe add Nevada and New Mexico and maybe Hawaii, although I think they would prefer to be an island nation unto themselves, and you have a population of reasonably progressive people who can rule themselves intelligently.

      The formerly Confederate states and other backwards locals can have their wet dream of a nation founded on the values of white republican Jezus. Those currently living there who don't want that would be welcome to join those of us looking for a better way.

      If there is no accountability for those who authorized torture, we can no longer say that we are a nation of laws, not men.

      by MikePhoenix on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 11:56:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Some states would split internally (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mkor7, NonnyO

        Virginia would probably be one of them. The north, including but not limited to the DC suburbs, has more in common with its neighbors to the north (Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware) than the Deep South.

        The last time this type of crisis reared its head, the western counties were the ones that had more in common, and voted to let the rest of the state go to the Devil in its own way. (Ergo, West Virginia - which ironically now is Deep South wannabe.)

        I'm not sure, but I think this time the fault line might lie around Richmond.

        If it's
        Not your body,
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        And it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 12:11:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'd certainly prefer to live in (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MikePhoenix

        a smaller, quieter nation that has repudiated all imperial ambition and commits instead to quality education for all-- something like an American Finland or Denmark.

    •  its coming to America first; (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tb92, theBreeze, BlueDragon, mkor7, NonnyO

      the cradle of the best and of the worst.
      Its here theyve got the range,
      and the machinery for change,  
      and its  here theyve got the spiritual thirst.

      LCohen

      don't always believe what you think

      by claude on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 12:00:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well, yes, peaceful breakups are possible (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aseth, Matt Z, Calamity Jean, mrkvica

      At least it was for the former Czechoslovakia. The Czechs and the Slovaks shook hands and agreed to disagree. It was all nice and friendly-like, without a single shot being fired.

      Of course, the US is neither the Czech Republic nor is it Slovakia, so who knows what would happen here.

      The whole point of society is to be less unforgiving than nature. - Arthur D. Hlavaty

      by Alice Venturi on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 12:19:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Give Mexico back to Mexico. ;-) (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean, NonnyO

      California and Texas in the same, smaller nation, ruled by Mexico, containing Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado and New Mexico.  Maybe Washington and Oregon, along with Idaho?

      And the rest in the USA?  

      Well, it would be an interesting experiment.  At any rate, the "Reconquista" is happening everywhere, in practically every state.  The demographics are changing. And in Mexico, the people generally believe in government projects and look to the government to do things.

      Perhaps what is truly ending is Old European White Guy authority. In another 20 years, we may have a markedly more socialist government. Getting there will not be pretty.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 01:46:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hahahahahahahahaha! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        radmul

        California and Texas in the same nation? Surely you jest!!

        No, California, Oregon, Washington, and possibly Nevada in the same country (all dependent on CA's economics). Texas, AZ and NM can go back to Mexico.

        The rest of the country can do what it wants.

        I reject your reality and substitute my own - Adam Savage

        by woolibaar on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 03:44:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Texas & California together, ruled by Mexico (0+ / 0-)

          where even conservative politicians are liberal by US standards, would be very interesting.

          In either case, in a few more years, a couple decades at most, demographics will have changed enough to make the situation very similar anyway.

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 09:34:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Its not the demographics (0+ / 0-)

            that would make a country of TX and CA so wrong.

            It is an entirely different way of looking at everything. CA and TX are at the extreme opposite ends of everything from the environment to controlling businesses.

            I've been to a couple of places in TX and I'll stay in CA. If the two were merged, CA would not change for the better.

            I reject your reality and substitute my own - Adam Savage

            by woolibaar on Mon Sep 30, 2013 at 07:53:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Even broken up and reformed the resulting nations (0+ / 0-)

      would be world powers.  Just on a more equal footing with the rest.  

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