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View Diary: Thanatos: this is the end (160 comments)

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  •  Yeah, yeah, yeah... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marleycat, Sparhawk

    We thought "the world was ending," but that was then. We KNOW it's ending now! We have evidence.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 10:14:20 AM PDT

    •  I never said the world was ending (14+ / 0-)

      That would require the idea that we are the world, which is pretty much counter to my point.

      We will exist, but the heyday is over, and so begins the descent into irrelevance.

    •  Actually, the world as we know it, is ending. (17+ / 0-)

      One degree at a time.

      On top of everything the diarist has discussed, we need to layer on the concept of global climate change. Unless there is a bunch of money in it for the powers that be, there will be no effort to prevent or ameliorate the impacts of our changing climate.

      So consider all that she has written and remember that the changing climate will create widespread droughts and famines and yes, we do KNOW and we DO have evidence that the world, as we know it, is ending.

      •  the world as we know it (9+ / 0-)

        has always been ending. And beginning.

        American thought, left and right, is far too influenced by End Times theology, implicit and explicit. I recommend Hindu or Taoist readings as an antidote.

        47 is the new 51!

        by nickrud on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 11:26:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually, my comment wasn't based in End (7+ / 0-)

          Times Theology, with which I am unfamiliar, but in science which tells us unequivocally that the world as we know it, is coming to an end unless we take some immediate steps to change the way we live.

          I doubt that Hindu or Tao reading is a solution to climate change.

          •  but it is (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sparhawk, marsanges, karmsy

            the Apocalypse is a peculiarly Western idea. Climate change as an Apocalypse, destroying all in its path is End Times thinking. If it (and I'm not arguing the point) as bad as the worst predictions, the 'powers that be' will change. They always do. They may be worse, they may be better, but they will change.

            47 is the new 51!

            by nickrud on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 12:06:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  you see it in action (5+ / 0-)

              in Syria. The destruction of the livelihood of the agrarian population through climate change there was, Im told, the fundamental condition that destined Syria now to collapse into civil war, where in Assad´s father´s generation modern weaponry was still able to keep a subjugated population together.

              And you could very well call that "the old Syria has come to an end". That is not end time thinking, it is just realism. Realism, taking into account the effects of climate change, means that regardless of who wins their specific civil war, "the old Syria", based on the marginal agrarian viability of theor countryside, is gobe forever. It will not come back.

              Of course "something" will take its place.. Time as such will never end, so far, "end time thinking" is indeed self contradictory. But human constructions such as states and societies can and do end, and we can see it coming.

              •  I've not read anything that (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                marsanges

                talks about the effects of climate change on Syria and its relationship to the civil war there - I'd be happy to be given some references.

                But, I will posit, that isolating one single country's experiences as emblematic of the global experience will require some references.

                47 is the new 51!

                by nickrud on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 01:23:18 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  hm, fair (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Susan from 29

                  here is one example

                  note - of cause noone takes up arms to shoot at the sun. The reasoning is - under normal circumstances, the repression apparatus would have been up to the task of keeping order and a stable state, for better or worse, using violence if bribery or persuasion didnt work, a la the bloody Homs affair of Assad the Elder. Now however, such a large portion of normally rural population was driven into the cities that the repression apparatus was overwhelmed - and the population driven into the cities couldnt be told to go back to a countryside that no longer provided a livelihood.

                  Thats the suggestetd causation chain, in which the immediate political issues of the civil war are the proximate causes, but the climate change provided the wholesale destabilisation that made the descent into civil war possible in the first place.  

                  you can debate it, but at least I think its a reasonable way how a final end to a societal condition (loss of agrarian sustainability) can be observed without it just being "end times ideology".

                  •  I'll quote one part of that link (0+ / 0-)

                    that is other than speculation.

                    CW: But I'd also add, you can’t go back in time and say if Syria had taken care of drought better, they would have avoided the civil war. Because climate change is only one factor. Syria still would have had problems with democracy, with human rights abuses, with existing politics. But in general addressing these issues is going to be an important part of natural security.

                    So, basically, this article is about might have could have but no did.

                    47 is the new 51!

                    by nickrud on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 02:51:50 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  Light My Fire (0+ / 0-)

            You may want to light one and throw this in
            If I was to say to you, girl, we couldn't get much hotter
            (yeah, it's twisted, but it's current...)

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