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View Diary: Communities could lose $30 million a day thanks to national park closures (99 comments)

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  •  Right (0+ / 0-)

    So what happens when they breakdown in Death Valley?  When all emergency services are closed?  Who's supposed to handle accidents?  Public safety?  Ever been to Death Valley, Norm?

    "It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker

    by Rolfyboy6 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:00:33 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  They call a tow truck (0+ / 0-)

      And P.S., this is just the federal gov't.  So you're saying that if a motorist got into trouble, California state troopers can't handle it?

      Sorry, but I side with freedom over public safety each and every time.  I don't need NSA spying or the patriot act to "keep me safe".  And I don't need the federal gov't to babysit me if I choose to drive myself through death valley.

      Stop treating adults like children.  People should be able to take care of themselves.

      •  Dummy (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dvalkure, BlackSheep1

        The tow trucks are from the NPS.  Death Valley is a desert far from any place.You really are stupid.

        "It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker

        by Rolfyboy6 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:11:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Is all desert land in a national park? (0+ / 0-)

          I can look on a map and find lots of open desert land that isn't inside of a national park.  So what happens when someone breaks down in one of those places?  They're just left to die without an NPS tow truck to save them?

          Whatever aid makes it to them can make it to Death Valley during a gov't shutdown.

          •  Then yes... call the cops. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BlackSheep1

            All major roads are patrolled by city, state, county patrolls. That's not the case in a place like Death Valley. If not for the NPS, nobody of authority is out there. Yes, there might be fellow travelers... might not be.

            You're going to look really silly dialing your cell phone with no coverage, and nobody to call.

            And if the weather is bad, things get deadly very quickly... They don't call it Death Valley for fun.

            Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.

            by walk2live on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:49:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Then don't go to Death Valley (0+ / 0-)

              I don't know if you're going to read this or not, but I wanted to say one thing to you, based on your sig.

              Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.
              Yes I pay taxes so that the gov't can provide for public safety.  But in so doing, I did not give the gov't absolute authority to be my babysitter.  Just because I pay for police or park rangers doesn't mean I'm now forbidden to go beyond the bounds of civilization.  That I'm forbidden to take any sort of risk lest I get myself into trouble.  That is NOT what I pay taxes for.

              Anyone who isn't prepared to take a risk should absolutely stay out of Death Valley.  But those who want to accept the risk shouldn't be banned from Death Valley just because a park ranger isn't there to babysit.

              •  You can go anywhere you wish... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Norm in Chicago

                If you want to go walking in the wilderness for a 5 months stretch, you can do that. You don't need special permission, or a permit. You don't have to tell anyone. I've done it - twice... hence my moniker - walk2live.

                The reason you can do that is because we have a huge amount of public lands in this country - owned by you and me. And with that ownership comes responsibility... Yes, it costs money to maintain access to those lands, and to protect them.

                Before I did these long hikes, I was a self-described Libertarian. But, afterwards, I came to realize the tremendous value of the commons. We have a treasure in this country in our public lands... If these lands were carved-up and owned privately, it would be a tradgedy. Entire ecosystems woudl be lost to whatever can make people a quick buck. And it really would be impossible to "go somewhere wild" - everything would be fenced-off. The wilderness experiences I had would be impossible.

                Today, I can drive down a forest road, park and camp for nothing - totally legally. Why? Because it's my land.

                So, you might say, fine... but why pay money to forest rangers, BLM land managers and the like? Because there is a ton of financial pressure on many people to break the law. Look at countries with weak protections for their public lands - illegal logging and mining is rampant. And when it's completely unregulated, it's especially destructive - pollution, poaching and other crimes come with the territory.

                With freedom comes responsibility, and it's our responsibility to take care of what we have. And that costs money.

                Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.

                by walk2live on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:02:10 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I still want a National Park Service (0+ / 0-)

                  I want public lands, I want illegal logging and mining bans.  I want the roads and facilities maintained.  And they will be.

                  My point is only valid for the duration of the gov't shutdown. The road is still there, and just because the rangers are off duty for a couple weeks doesn't mean the parks should be completely closed to the public, zero access.

                  The people arguing with me in this thread disagree with you.  They want everything fenced off and for it to be  impossible to "go somewhere wild".  Via the comments I got, everyone must be babysat and they expect anyone who is more than 5 feet from a ranger will fall off a cliff or otherwise get themselves killed.  Parks must be closed while rangers are off duty in the name of public safety.

                  Am I only allowed to go somewhere wild if accompanied by a ranger?  If not, why does the shutdown matter?

      •  Yeah, and stop telling those companies they (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rolfyboy6, BlackSheep1

        can't put lead or arsenic in their paint. Savvy consumers will figure it out and not buy them! And who needs speed limits on roads?! Pfft! Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly? Am I right?! Why let's get rid of every regulation and rule! They're obviously just keeping us safe from ourselves! WOOT! Party like it's 1699 but with internet porn!

        Spite is the ranch dressing Republicans slather on their salad of racism

        by ontheleftcoast on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:17:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Do you only drive the speed limit when watched? (0+ / 0-)

          The discussion is why the parks can't be open during a shutdown.  That doesn't make rules and regulations magically vanish, they're all still there.

          To you, does the speed limit and safe driving concerns just vanish for you whenever a police officer isn't watching you?

          If you're driving an empty road late at night, and you KNOW there isn't a cop for miles, that means drive 150mph right?

          •  And I'm the only car on the road? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bryduck, BlackSheep1

            Sorry, but the regulations you're so afraid of aren't there to protect me from myself. They're there to protect me from the morans driving 150 mph because they don't see a cop or the company that hopes it can use that moldy bag of peanuts in the next batch of peanut butter.

            Spite is the ranch dressing Republicans slather on their salad of racism

            by ontheleftcoast on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 02:38:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Where did I say I don't like regulations? (0+ / 0-)

              You're using regulations in the wrong way.  You give examples of regulations that are there to protect the public.

              But how are you personally harmed by someone going for a hike in a national park without a park ranger present?  How does that pollute your ground water or poison your food?

              Why do you insist on regulating the actions of others when it doesn't affect you?

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