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View Diary: The Oceans are Dying: Oxygen is Depleting, Acidity Rising at Fastest Rate in 300,000,000 Years (215 comments)

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  •  and my feminist consciousness (33+ / 1-)

    has returned to the 70s because more and more information surfaces concerning how patriarchy began to dominate roughly 6,000 years ago.

    i think we would have had a chance to have sustainable everything if war based patriarchy hadn't wiped out earlier civilizations which respected women and the processes of life.

    learning about ancient Crete in the past two years reignited the idea of a pre-patriarchy, not a matriarchy, just a time in ancient Europe when women were respected.

    lack of respect for women coincides with lack of respect for our Earth.

    see my siggy.

    •  Wish I could rule out your hypothesis...but can't. (5+ / 0-)

      "Push the button, Max!" Jack Lemmon as Professor Fate, The Great Race

      by bartcopfan on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 08:43:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree with B. Dragon (7+ / 1-)

      Little boys can't share a sandbox without destroying it.

      A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

      by onionjim on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 08:55:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  anime1973 (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenearth, Lost and Found

        did you hr because you disagree?

        A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

        by onionjim on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 04:05:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Obviously. (0+ / 0-)

          And for the second time in the same thread, at that.

          Not surprising, given that anime1973 is given to posting diaries whose sources come from "A Voice for Men", which bills itself as providing "Humanist Counter-Theory in the Age of Misandry".

          That's right.  The Real Problem per anime1973 is that men are oppressed by a "misandrist" society.  And any post suggesting otherwise (or the opposite) is HR-worthy, because of, um, bigotry.  Kind of like how calling out and naming white supremacy is, y'know, bigotry against white people.

          Not sure what the consequences are for serial HR abuse, but I hope to find out.

          Site rules:

          Our new reporting tools make it easier to track hidden comments and who HR'd them. If we determine that a comment should not have been hidden, those dropping the Hide Ratings will lose their ratings ability for a period of time, progressively longer for each infraction until that ability is removed forever. Uprating personal insults is as bad if not worse than making the insult itself because this rewards the insulters and encourages them to continue the same behavior. Doing so will likewise cost users their ratings privileges for a period, with long penalties for repeat infractions. In baseball, a tie goes to the runner. At Daily Kos, any gray area will be decided in favor of the commenter. So if you're not sure that something should be HR'd, then don't. Because if the situation is that iffy, chances are that it'll be you who gets burned. HRs are for clear and obvious violations.
          I think if anime would like to stick around and keep ratings privileges, s/he should be careful.

          "A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

          by gharlane on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 09:59:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Don't know how much of a connection there is (4+ / 0-)

      between the extinction rate and the presence of "patriarchy" in hunter-gatherer societies characterized by a significantly smaller human population density than what exists today.

      The spread of (patriarchal) agricultural empires represents a big change in human social form -- conquest and domestication became important at that point.

      "Coal is a rock in the ground. Only under definite historical relations did coal become fossil fuel." --Jason W. Moore

      by Cassiodorus on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 09:35:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i agree (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cassiodorus

        we may have taken a fatal turn with agriculturally based civilizations with hierarchy and dense population growth.

        but it may be that agriculture developed in a particular way under patriarchy.

        •  I think it's the empire thing that changed it. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blueoasis, cville townie

          Didn't the Sumerians have city-states?  At any rate, there was a rather significant environmental change in Europe and Africa with the expansion of the Roman Empire (for instance) -- forests were cut to make way for farmland and species went out of business.

          "Coal is a rock in the ground. Only under definite historical relations did coal become fossil fuel." --Jason W. Moore

          by Cassiodorus on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 05:06:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  One great mass extinction (0+ / 0-)

        the Pleistocene overkill, happened during a pre-agricultural phase of human development.  It's strictly my opinion, but I suspect the deep ecological consciousness of Native Americans had its roots in figuring out that they themselves were responsible for the overkill, and a social vow and transgenerational undertaking never to allow such a thing to happen again.

        Clap On, Clap Off, The Clapper!

        by ActivistGuy on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 05:26:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Blame the sex, not the species? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      northsylvania

      Not sure how that is helpful to garnering wide support for climate change solutions.

      Neither is it certain how such a hypothesis could be demonstrably proven. Who's to say a pre-patriarchy or matriarchy wouldn't have evolved into the same capitalistic, consumerist society? Which sex loves shopping most? If men had respected women more or had there been more gender equality, would that have resulted in women buying more useless trifles, chewing up even greater resources and causing even more pollution? What about Margaret Thatcher and other leading women conservatives, who have placed capitalism ahead of responsible stewardship of our planet and its people?

      I don't support having a patriarchal society, but I think this is going off on a tangent of might have been, could have been, should have been, when the focus should be kept on this particular issue in the here and now, what needs to be done, and how that goal can best be accomplished.

    •  patriarchy is the dumbest theory (0+ / 0-)

      The theory that men often times separated by thousands of miles and years conspired to hold down women for their benefit is stupid on its face

      •  You abused (10+ / 0-)

        your ratings privileges above.  HRs aren't to be used to express disagreement, but to respond to obscene and trolling comments.  BlueDragon's comment is guilty of neither.  Please retract.

      •  I'll agree with JosephK74 on this, anime. (9+ / 0-)

        HRs are not to be given out for mere disagreement.

        Patriarchy has always been about control of women (and protection of them/children as possessions). Some cultures and individuals took it far more seriously than others. Love is powerful, but not more powerful than culture in most instances. Marriage wasn't about that.

        It was about children. Everybody knows who the mother of a child is, but they're never quite sure about the father. Especially long before general understanding about genetics. There are enough patriarchial cultures still existent today to trace this male insecurity pretty conclusively. The so-called "Sexual Revolution" happened in my lifetime, our wannabe patriarchs are still fighting it tooth and nail.

        The point may be arguable. So argue it. The HRs are not warranted.

        •  the thing about your comment is (0+ / 0-)

          That you aren't describing patriarchy. You're describing a valid genetic reason. In a social species where raining young takes decades of investment you sort of want to be sure that the kid is yours. That's an evolved trait.. Not a social one that is learned. Hr stands because the comment was bigoted and she just has an axe to grind against men.

          •  Nonsense, anime. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bsmechanic, onionjim, Eyesbright

            We know it's a valid genetic reason, the patriarchs of this world and its history don't/didn't. Evolution could - and for awhile there, did - go in a different direction. With the mother as the ruling archetype. Because in the end, it doesn't really matter who the baby-father is.

            Check around. The vestiges of paternalism are everywhere, with so many bragging so much about their seed-sowing. Complete with the new urban term of "baby-mama" tossed so lightly. Sub-culture is still culture, you know. Things in the sexual department are pretty... um, confused right now. If you're really worried about who to leave your 'stuff' to when you die, is the genetics really more important than the love - presumed involvement and commitment in the raising of the next generation? And if so, are you sure it's love?

            We have a way to go on this front. Your HRs are still abusive.

            •  it does matter who the father is (0+ / 0-)

              Hunting large game is dangerous. Risking your life for a child that isn't your genetic heritage is stupid. Men who controlled their primary mates sexuality had an advantage in passing their genes. You say it doesn't matter. That's a female perspective. Put yourself in a mans place. Being cockolded into raising another mans child doesn't help your own legacy.

              •  Oh. My. God. (4+ / 0-)
                Put yourself in a mans place. Being cockolded into raising another mans child doesn't help your own legacy.
                You, my friend, have an axe to grind. Its interesting to read your delusional comments, a window into teh crazy.

                I have a quibble with your attitude about women. By the quote above, you are concerned that a woman might have a child from another's seed, and expect you to raise this child.

                Again, what's the problem? You might be suggesting that the woman has become impregnated by another male, in secret, and you would be required to feed this monster. Oh, the travesty. Basically, your attitude is disgusting.

                A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

                by onionjim on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 04:10:15 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Lions and tigers...oh, my (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  onionjim, Joieau, Eyesbright

                  Envisioning humans as being like lions and tigers, where a new male may well kill the young offspring of another male so he can mate with the female and produce his own offspring because she'll rapidly come into heat again, anime?

                  What a creep. What a clod. (Shiver, shudder, heave). Sure, you can't blame anyone, we're just animals.

                  •  Like lions, where the male lion lounges around (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Eyesbright

                    while all the female lions go out on the hunt--but the male gets to eat first? The animal kingdom version of "Honey, get me a beer!"

                    And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

                    by Pale Jenova on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 08:52:56 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Guess my genes just aren't (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Eyesbright

                as selfish as yours.

          •  Riiiight. (0+ / 0-)
            Hr stands because the comment was bigoted and she just has an axe to grind against men.
            Kind of like, how naming and calling out white supremacy is, y'know, bigoted against white people.

            "A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

            by gharlane on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 10:01:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  There's nothing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Just Bob

      feminist about the gender essentialism your comment presupposes.  Indeed, that gender essentialism has repeatedly been use as a political excuse for the subordinate state of women.  I can't say I see any difference between men and women when it comes to exploiting natural resources.  This is part and parcel of contemporary consumer existence.  The root of the problem is capitalism, not gender.

      •  there is nothing essentialist (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        atana, onionjim, Lost and Found

        about indicting patriarchy.

        if you know the word "essentialism," why can't you distinguish between gender and patriarchy?

        i am disappointed that anyone who claims to understand essentialism can't tell the difference.

        and for your information: i also blame capitalism; however, we have particular form of capitalism forged under patriarchy.

        you are sounding like an old fashioned marxist who doesn't want to recognize the privilege of race and gender alongside class.

        i am also a member of both of our anticapitalist groups here.

      •  Here's the part (0+ / 0-)

        where you get to actually demonstrate the gender essentialism of BD's post, rather than simply asserting without basis that it's there.  You know, by quoting words from the post and then describing how they are gender essentialist.

        You may find that somewhat challenging, especially since BD didn't describe any qualities that are "inherent" to maleness or femaleness.

        Good luck.  But if you can't, don't expect to be taken seriously.

        "A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

        by gharlane on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 10:04:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I will, however, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      samanthab

      update this comment, because while it is absurd and reflects an ugly gender ideology that inhibits the emancipatory struggles of both women and GLBT folk, it didn't deserve an HR.  I'd encourage you to look into queer and feminist literature and educate yourself as to just why this sort of essentialism is so destructive to projects of equality.

    •  Remember this diary (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larsstephens, Joieau, onionjim

      The Genocide of Matriarchal Societies by Winter Rabbit

      It's rather intense, but a great compilation of information.

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 08:48:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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