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View Diary: "Secession by another means" Bill Moyers (223 comments)

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  •  There's a lot we can't really solve. (9+ / 0-)

    The problem is the business interests, wall street and all the other big-money people are completely isolated from the real world.  They don't hear the usual tea-party, or Occupy Wall Street kind of talking.  Social groups can easily isolate themselves from what the crazy people in their party are saying.

    It's an entirely different cultural bubble, and they don't know what the people outside of their bubble are doing.  They just know their taxes wind up being cut when the Republicans are in charge.  The Republican base are useful idiots, and they will probably remain useful idiots to those same big-money interests until (or unless) there's been some serious, irreparable catastrophic damage done.  Like half of their wealth vanishing in the blink of an eye.  That kind of damage.

    The problem we have is when people like that still support the same party, even though they have proven themselves time and time again how remarkably bad they are at handling themselves, or at being a good faith actor in supporting the country they live in.

    They need to police their side of the aisle, and until they do, it will only get worse.  Unless of course the establishment Republicans boot out the crazy people and never look back.

    That would probably only happen if they lose big in 2014.

    That's pretty much the only way we can impact things, and it's how we ought to address the issue.  Don't convince people the Republicans are Evil Incarnate.  That's not an argument that most people we need on our side will be receptive to.  Just try to get the best Democrats we can get, and help convince people that our plans are better than the other guy's plans.

    I'm still going to laugh.  People in good spirits tend to be discouraged less than those who are in despair.

    •  We can solve this - by a concerted (9+ / 0-)

      effort to register new voters and get those voters to the polls.

      The potential in, for example, the Latino community is vast and still untapped.  

      I'm spending a lot of time with my students (and I don't teach political science) educating them about why they must vote in midterm elections.

      Only two student in my university class yesterday could name both NY Senators. Only one knew the name of his Congressperson.

      We must do a much better job educating the next generation of potential voters.

      "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition." Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon

      by Denise Oliver Velez on Sat Oct 12, 2013 at 04:03:59 AM PDT

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      •  it's more than just getting people to the polls (11+ / 0-)

        It's getting people to understand WHY they should not only get to the polls, but pull the lever in their own interests and not under the assumption that they are just impoverished billionaires.  

        Until they see themselves as part of the process of the American republic - they have no reason to care, much less follow the issues enough to understand how much they are getting screwed.

        Both my parents and brother are avid Teahadists - but they can't name their representatives. They don't know how to contact them or why they should contact them - even on issues they feel passionate about.  

        There is a complete disconnect there in how the process works and how they can influence it while they moan about their lack of influence.  They can tell you all about what Sarah Palin or Mike Huckabee said on POX spews, but have no idea what Bobby Jindal said - and they live in Louisiana.

        Me - I bug my representatives all the damn time.  I know them by name, I know their staffers  by name - and I am sure that there are people on that end that get tired of hearing from me.  I have asked them to help me with issues, to help others with issues, signed petitions, supported their goals - not always with money, but I know what Jeff Merkley is up to and why and how to reach him and his staff.  I know what he stands for and I know why I voted for him and will again.

        My parents think that is ridiculous.  They have no understanding of what representation is supposed to look like - and are baffled when they see it.

        •  When I talk about getting people to the polls (16+ / 0-)

          that includes voter education on the issues. We did it in the South in the 60's and people faced being killed - beaten and terrorized.  We can do it again.

          I harp about civics education a lot here - and will continue to do it.  

           

          "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition." Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon

          by Denise Oliver Velez on Sat Oct 12, 2013 at 05:13:41 AM PDT

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          •  the model of the 60s is not really valid now (3+ / 0-)

            too much  has changed and the whole 60s trope in general is so cliche that it's lost any power it might have had back in the day.  It just comes off as naff.  

            The concept of media has changed, the connectivity and social fabric has changed - the people who need to be educated and get in the polls are not going to have a sit in and sing along with Joan Baez.  

            Louisiana is all over the place trying to get people registered to vote. ALL. OVER. IT.  If you apply for any social service - from low cost mental health care, medicaid, SNAP, help on your heating bill - you can register to vote.  Drivers License or State ID? Register to vote.  Social Security anything - register to vote.  To the point it irritates people being constantly asked their status as voters.  It still doesn't get people to the polls or put Bobby Jindal out of a job.

            People who you would expect to be disenfranchised from that 60s POV - people of colour, women, the elderly, the sick - are being SPAMMED with opportunities to register simply and easily.  

            So we have to look in a realistic and modern way at why this change in access for the positive is not having an effect on the actual numbers of people getting out there and voting their interests.  It takes more than registering people to get it to register WITH people that the power is in their hands.

            •  I don't agree - nothing (5+ / 0-)

              replaces boots on the ground and face to face contact.

              This has nothing to do with Joan Baez.

              And if you look at Latino demographics - too few are registered, and too few go to vote.  This will change.

              Voter repression in many states is going to make it harder - not easier.  

              "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition." Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon

              by Denise Oliver Velez on Sat Oct 12, 2013 at 05:31:17 AM PDT

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              •  Latinos are not the major minority where I am (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Denise Oliver Velez

                nor is latino culture something I claimed any expertise on at all.  This is not a latino heavy area where I am at the moment and have experience with, it's heavily poor whites and African Americans.

                This is also not a state where voter suppression is an issue - as I said, they are bending over backwards to register people and allow access to polls here.  True it's not like that in say, Arizona, which is heavily hispanic - but Arizona is not the norm in the US either.  Each region has it's own challenges.  This region had a disconnect problem in more ways that it has a suppression problem - but right next door you have voter suppression in Mississippi.

                There is nothing inherently 60s about talking to people face to face about issues.  Nothing.  And as I said previously, when you bring up the 60s, you automatically put a lot of people on the defensive and come off naff.  Joan Baez is exactly what a lot of people think when you mention the 60s at all in connection with political action, like it or not.

              •  seems like some talking past (3+ / 0-)

                I seem to agree with most of what both of you are saying. What you call civics education isn't just about registering people to vote; the fact that it was done in the 60s doesn't necessarily tell us how to do it now. That doesn't mean that it can't be done, or that you were reveling in Joan Baez(?!) nostalgia when you mentioned the 60s.

                I will say one thing that I haven't earned the right to say: the one advantage of going up against anti-democratic terrorism is that it's pretty easy for people to see what they're up about. For a lot of people in Louisiana (and elsewhere) right now, that isn't the case.

                "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

                by HudsonValleyMark on Sat Oct 12, 2013 at 06:03:21 AM PDT

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          •  Piease do. (2+ / 0-)

            We need to change minds to change voting patterns long term.

            "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." -- JC, Matthew 6:24

            by Chi on Sat Oct 12, 2013 at 06:12:25 AM PDT

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