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View Diary: ALEC "Limited Representative Government" About to Be Launched (168 comments)

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  •  limited representative government, (17+ / 0-)

    ALEC wrote it
    ALEC distributed it to the IRS
    ALEC published it on the web.

    ALEC owns it!

    •  I just don't think it's what they meant (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sparhawk

      No one is going to propose limiting who can vote in any substantive way.  How they propose to do this?  I don't see it in their "teachings", other than the usual voter fraud prevention BS.

      If this were truly their intent - to openly admit this, anyone associated with them including politicians, corporations, and wealthy people, would be shooting themselves in the foot.

      It would be nice if it were this easy.

      West. No further west. All sea. --Robert Grenier

      by Nicolas Fouquet on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 02:36:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They Said It; They Own It (6+ / 0-)

        If it's not what they meant, put them on the spot to explain what they did mean. It's a truism of politics that if you're explaining, you're losing; don't let them off the hook.

        On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

        by stevemb on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 02:45:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here it is in a sentence: (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          caul, hungeski, cotterperson

          In his essay, Civic Virtue and Western Civilization
          by William H. Young (Dec 01, 2011 for the National Association of Scholars),

          "The failure of classical republics due to internal dissent and factions coupled with this recent colonial experience led the Founders, notably Madison, to create a republican Constitution based primarily on the principles of Lockean liberalism. In that view, man is essentially a materialist who has natural rights, but unites with others in a community in order to preserve individual liberty, private property, and pursuit of self-interest through a strictly limited representative government of delegated authority. Each individual consents to be governed by a popular majority and to abide by its determinations."

          West. No further west. All sea. --Robert Grenier

          by Nicolas Fouquet on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 10:03:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  They really do mean it. They always have. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          peregrine kate, MNDem999

          Ideologically the Kochs and the Teabaggers are Birchers, and the Birchers had always insisted "This is a republic, not a democracy-- and let's keep it that way." In other words, they favor a timocratic republic in which voting and representation are limited by property qualifications.

          They may not be able to achieve timocracy juridically by amending the Constitution, but they're quite aware they can achieve it conditionally by gerrymandering, voter harassment, vote suppression, and above all by corrupting campaigns with infusions of big money. The Citizens United decision makes it easy to combat democracy and promote timocracy.

          "Limited representative government": they are much less interested in limiting the power of government than in limiting who government can represent.

      •  Are you serious? (16+ / 0-)
        No one is going to propose limiting who can vote in any substantive way.
        You really haven't been paying attention then. The voter fraud prevention BS as you call it is absolutely a wide spread, well funded and maliciously intended attempt to limit who can vote in a substantive way.

        Repealing the amendment that called for the direct election of Senators is a wide spread, well funded and maliciously intended attempt to disenfranchise the American people from their Senators.

        If this were truly their intent - to openly admit this, anyone associated with them including politicians, corporations, and wealthy people, would be shooting themselves in the foot.
        You're basically saying it would be foolish therefore they would never do something like that. You're like the person on the jury that refuses to vote guilty because you can't fathom that someone would want to kill another human even though someone has obviously been murdered.

        The Great Depression: Now In Color!

        by TheChop on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 02:53:34 PM PDT

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        •  I just think it's a bit of a Freudian slip (0+ / 0-)

          By "BS", I'm agreeing that the intimidation and disenfranchisement of voters is real and it's BS.  But what we're implying here is that ALEC is putting the limitation of voting rights as a published strategy. They may feel it but they'll never admit it.  Regardless of how damaging they are to Democracy, they are not rolling out a public, transparent effort to subvert Democracy.

          I just don't like to accept something as fact simply because I so want to believe it.  That's what Republicans do, not us.  

          West. No further west. All sea. --Robert Grenier

          by Nicolas Fouquet on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 09:48:24 PM PDT

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      •  I read recently about a 2-tiered elections system (7+ / 0-)

        being implemented by one of the states (Missouri? Kansas?, sorry I can't provide a link) in which voters who can vote in Federal elections won't necessarily be qualified to vote in state elections if they don't have state-sanctioned (individually determined by each state) voter identification.

        I think this was in response to Obamacare voters being automatically registered to vote in Federal elections.

        Seems it would be pertinent to this diary. Can someone expand on this?

        "Let us not look back to the past with anger, nor towards the future with fear, but look around with awareness." James Thurber

        by annan on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 03:40:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's associated to ALEC also (5+ / 0-)

          State officials in Arizona and Kansas are developing a new scheme to implement an American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC)-approved bill requiring proof of citizenship at the polls.

          But Arizona and Kansas are now asserting the ruling only applies to federal elections, and are creating "two-tiered" ballots to try thwarting the decision. Voters who showed proof of citizenship to register will be allowed to vote in all local, state, and federal elections. -

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