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View Diary: Will Marcy Wheeler Win A Pulitzer For Today's Stunning Blog Post On NSA Wiretapping? (117 comments)

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  •  Good thing said influential blogger (19+ / 0-)

    retracted, or at least deigned to convincingly explain his observation that NSA domestic spying was a White Privilege issue about which he didn't give two shits.

    Oh, wait...

    •  actually (7+ / 0-)

      he clarified it just a couple comments later in the same thread. but please keep beating that dead horse.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 01:56:32 AM PST

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      •  No, he just covered it with a layer of BS. n/t (15+ / 0-)

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 06:17:18 AM PST

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      •  Is this comment your idea of clarification? (11+ / 0-)

        http://www.dailykos.com/...
        If so, please explain what it clears up. It certainly doesn't explain his 2 shits comment, and I'm in the process of checking the entire thread for any other 'clarifying' co9mments by kos. If the comment linked above isn't the one you meant, please post a link to the comment you had in mind.

        Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

        by davidincleveland on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:35:42 AM PST

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      •  Just found another one; is *this* it? (8+ / 0-)

        http://www.dailykos.com/...
        This comment doesn't explain his "white privilege" comment either. Please explain how it does so, if you think it does. I will continue to check that thread. I am not trying to pick a fight, but I won't let any kossak call a horse dead when it is still standing. We all owe that to our reality-based community.

        So far, Corvo's reply to your dead horse comment appears quite accurate. If you have actual proof of a genuinely clarifying comment by Kos in that thread, please post it.

        Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

        by davidincleveland on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:53:55 AM PST

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        •  this one (5+ / 0-)

          struck me as his making clear that he doesn't like the focus on snowden/greenwald, but does think the nsa spying is important. i have no idea where the white privilege part came from, but this seems to contradict it. the bottom line is that one off-hand comment, which he quickly clarified, has become a sort of totem to his critics. i would hate if every off-hand comment i made held such totemic power.

          and the other bottom line is that the blog he owns continues to cover the nsa scandal, and i don't recall one front page post that has defended the spying or those excusing it, while there have been plenty of posts that have been sharply critical of the spying.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:58:48 AM PST

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          •  It was, at best, disingenuous. (5+ / 0-)

            How do you discuss the NSA spying without discussing the, ermm, rather extraordinary actions taken by the worldwide security apparatus to apprehend Snowden, for instance? or Greenwald's partner?

            You can't.

            I was actually pulling several punches in my comments about the site leader.  Maybe next time I won't.

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 09:24:55 AM PST

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            •  the comment (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Don midwest, divineorder

              was almost a month to the day before miranda was detained. but even the attempts to catch snowden have been a distraction. they are trivial compared to the story itself.

              i've been saying all along that i want snowden to get asylum (and it would be nice if germany also offered it), and for him to then largely disappear from public view, so everyone can focus on the real story. since he left the airport, for the most part that's happened.

              The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

              by Laurence Lewis on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 09:38:13 AM PST

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              •  and interest in the story has, (7+ / 0-)

                mirabile dictu, dissipated considerably ever since the Names of Scandal have disappeared from the news.

                Big surprise!  Most people deal more comfortably with personalities than with issues.  And in order to effect real change here, we need real personalities.  That's simply the way the world works: People vote for the presidential candidate who doesn't sweat on stage, not for the one who promises intelligent and thoughtful SCOTUS nominees, for instance.

                Finally, and as an aside, the worst thing that could happen to Snowden would be for him to accept a German offer of asylum.  He'd be in an American black site within hours, with the full cooperation of the German government.  Surely you know that.

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 10:12:05 AM PST

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          •  I completely accept your second bottom line, and I (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LeftOverAmerica, ek hornbeck, corvo

            would not remain a member of a blog that acted otherwise. About that first bottom line, it wasn't an off-hand comment. It was a reply to a question, very early in a "Ask me anything about Daily Kos" diary, and the rest of the thread discussed that reply. If it was an off-hand remark Kos had plenty of chances to say so. He never did. Until he does at least that, some of us will persist in thinking that horse alive and well.

            Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

            by davidincleveland on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 10:14:57 AM PST

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      •  Found it! (16+ / 0-)

        http://www.dailykos.com/...
        The most salient paragraph:

        It's an issue. One of many. And one that probably has the least direct effect on people, no matter how much people hyperventilate about it. So forgive me for not having a heart attack over something that is, at best, an abstract insult to our privacy, as opposed to a tangible one that most of you will never have to experience.
        [emphasis added by me]
        I'm glad I left that diary when I did, before this clarification was posted. Had I seen it that day my reply to Kos would have been quite sulfuric. Even now, I'm going to reserve my full opinion of the bolded sentence, in the name of thread comity in this excellent diary.

        I will only comment that the italicized phrase could only have been written by someone who has willfully closed his eyes and ears to the very real examples of direct effect on Americans who have been spied on by their own government. While I excuse ignorance displayed by my fellow citizens all the time, I draw the line at this kind of ignorance when it is displayed by the author of Crashing The Gates.

        Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

        by davidincleveland on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 09:27:35 AM PST

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        •  we all have our issues priorities (4+ / 0-)

          and his is immigration reform. mine is and probably always will be climate change. i also think the nsa spying is a very big deal. so do some of the site's most prominent fpers.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 09:42:14 AM PST

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          •  I have no problem with Kos prioritizing. (15+ / 0-)

            I'm also quite sure that we all can respect others' prioritizing. Dismissing those of us who have government spying as one of our priorities isn't just disrespectful of us, it is insulting when it is accompanied by that 'white privilege' crack. He never walked that back and it is ridiculous to pretend that he did so.

            That horse won't die until Kos himself issues an apology for his crack; this isn't something to be excused by committee. I don't expect Kos will apologize, any more than he apologized for dissing kossaks who voted in his own presidential candidate preference poll for Dennis Kucinich.

            Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

            by davidincleveland on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 10:03:50 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  heh (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              divineorder, duhban

              we all have strong opinions, and i myself have been occasionally sharply critical of people who i see as lacking the willingness or ability to criticize certain democratic politicians... it's also possible that i've made a comment or two that was wrong (possible, mind you!)... i disagreed with his comment, but on the whole, i write it off as just a clumsy moment. he hasn't said anything remotely similar since, and meanwhile other fpers on the blog he owns continue to write about the continually unfolding nsa scandal.

              The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

              by Laurence Lewis on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 10:10:43 AM PST

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              •  heh. if those FPers wrote about (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                davidincleveland

                the NSA scandal half as often as they dredged up uninteresting dirt on Mittens, I'd be impressed.

                But as a general rule, the FP is the part of DKos least worth reading.

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 06:42:40 PM PST

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        •  Analysis Of Kos's Fundamental Error (6+ / 0-)

          The basic concept Kos overlooks is the difference between rules and meta-rules. The simplest illustration is the classic "three wishes" story -- generally, it's assumed that wishes for specific things (ten billion tax-free dollars, a naked and willing hottie of your preferred gender on a tigerskin rug, an aerosol cloud of permanent irresistible truth serum over the Capitol and White House, etc) are allowed, but meta-wishes (wishing for three more wishes) are not, because the latter breaks the whole system.

          Abuses like the stop-and-frisk policies Kos references are violations of the rules of a free society. The abuses addressed in this diary are violations of the meta-rules, since their targeting can be (if it isn't already) directed at political opponents of the people in power. For obvious reasons, tolerating a basic violation of the meta-rules undercuts all rules, since it directly impinges upon the process of peaceful political redress of grievances.

          On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

          by stevemb on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 09:54:03 AM PST

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        •  One quick reply. (6+ / 0-)

          The Obama administration has deported more people than any other administration.  Why is that?  And I have to wonder exactly where they're getting their information from.  Could it possibly be from spying?  

        •  Never saw that added bit from Kos (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          davidincleveland, ek hornbeck, corvo, caul

          and I agree with the rest of your comment as well.

          I'd say he lost the plot on that one, and the very real way this impacts every citizen, especially since it impacts our democracy.

          Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

          by greenbastard on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 02:30:32 PM PST

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