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View Diary: Pastor Apologizes to Costco, Praises Them for Their Good Works (235 comments)

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  •  i think you point out perhaps the biggest (8+ / 0-)

    ideological battle we face. Namely convincing people that the government can help and be useful and turn people into 'leeches' or whatever term you want to use. And while I don't know the man you mention I know that mentality, it's the mentality of my 'reagan democrat' family that is blue collar and has worked hard all their lives. Hell when it comes down to it it's that mentality that probably differentiates me from more aggressive progressives because like you I think the government should be there but only as a safety net.

    It's funny because you call to mind a conversation I had not 24 hours ago not with someone (let's claim him number 1) that would self identify as conservative (but neither would they self identify as liberal) who was talking about someone that we both know who has managed to pretty consistently screw his life up. I'll call him number two.

    Now I have nothing against number two but he keeps making his life more difficult. Well number 1 mentioned how despite the fact that he generally doesn't like  the government getting involved he wished mental health services were better because he thought that number 2 might have some minor/moderate mental health issue that was either causing or contributing to his issues.

    (Now in full disclosure both of these people have known each other for decades so this is no light statement even if number 1 was prone to that and he's not)

    It makes me wonder if that is what it will take to convince people and finally slay that gods damned lie Reagan told all those years ago.

    Der Weg ist das Ziel

    by duhban on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 05:30:13 AM PST

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    •  :sigh: (6+ / 0-)

      I would think it obvious that 'and turn people into leeches...' should be 'and not turn people into leeches' my apologies

      Der Weg ist das Ziel

      by duhban on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 05:32:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's what it ALWAYS takes. (4+ / 0-)
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      fumie, duhban, ivorybill, OleHippieChick

      As long as "those people" can be referred to in those terms--some other group that doesn't touch the speaker in any significant way--it's easy to point the finger and say "moocher," "taker," "parasite" or whatever.

      We have seen, time and time again, where once-firm convictions pivot almost 180 degrees when "those people" turn out to be "my child", "my friend", "my neighbor" or some other specific connection.

      For a specific political example, consider the reactions to Representative Trey Radel (R-FL) and his recent conviction for cocaine possession.  Suddenly Republicans are talking about "treating his disease" and making all sorts of charitable noises.  (Left unspoken is the observation that being busted for cocaine apparently does NOT trigger expulsion proceedings.)

      So. yeah, I'd say that expanding our definitions of "my neighbors" and "my brothers" is critical to the public discussion.

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 09:56:48 AM PST

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      •  Exactly. Evil pus-bag Rush needs our prayers and (1+ / 0-)
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        support, not our condemnation! Substitute a Democrat and the same oh so compassionate folks would be baying for his head on a pike.

      •  Exactly the point Jesus was making! (0+ / 0-)

        When he told the Pharisee to "love God and love your neighbor" the Pharisee asked "who is my neighbor?"

        And he told the parable of the Good Samaritan, in which the Pharisee is forced to admit that the neighbor was the man who SHOWED MERCY, which made him uncomfortable because that was the SAMARITAN, a hated foreigner, half breed, "wrong" religion, and "impure" person.

    •  The government is also there to defend... (1+ / 0-)
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      the weak and powerless from the predations of the strong and powerful.

      "An egg is not poultry.” An old Blues tune's brilliant insight into the notion that a zygote can, in any sense, be "a person."

      by carbonman1950 on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 10:03:00 PM PST

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    •  The Reagan Democrats have a short memory. (1+ / 0-)
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      Or else they forgot what their PARENTS and HISTORY BOOKS said about what America was like before the New Deal.  They grew up in a society which DID value hard work, and REWARDED it, mostly fairly (except for minorities and women), and they have not YET experienced the return to the previous system, so they think it is ONLY their hard work that has made them prosperous.  In fact, it was their hard work AND protections from being cheated by their bosses and the suppliers of their consumer products (including banking and investment products) that made it possible for them to become, and STAY, prosperous.

      Therefore, they fall for the line that "nobody's problems are solved by government" and want to abolish the protective laws that protect THEM.  Keep the government out of my Medicare?  Keep the government out of food production?  Shut down the interstate highways, the land grant colleges (but not their sports teams!), consumer protection laws, and the GPS satellites?  Guess what?  You may get sick from salmonella and not be able to get care for it!  You will have to travel on dirt roads!  You would not have been able to go to college!  And that navigation system in the car YOU paid for won't work without the satellites WE pay for!

      Conservatives claim that government does not solve problems, it is the problem.  And when THEY are in charge of it, they PROVE it!

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