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View Diary: Pastor Apologizes to Costco, Praises Them for Their Good Works (235 comments)

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  •  Something doesn't sit right here... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric K

    http://www.foxnews.com/...

    Either Faux Noise is making up quotes from Caleb Kaltenbach, or Caleb Kaltenbach is backpedaling in a big way.

    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

    by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 07:28:25 AM PST

    •  "Faux Noise is making up quotes" (0+ / 0-)

      No! They'd never do that!  

      The thing about quotes on the internet is you cannot confirm their validity. ~Abraham Lincoln

      by raboof on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 07:51:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, yeah... (0+ / 0-)

        ...but then Kaltenbach could say so, couldn't he?

        "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

        by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 07:52:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  the quotes don't have to be made up (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          thomstark, Miniaussiefan, JustBeKos

          It seems to me that he probably explained pretty reasonably why he thought it was bizarre for the Bible to be labeled as fiction, and why some people got upset about it. That doesn't mean that he was teeing off on Costco. It looks like the Fox reporter picked out the reddest meat he could find, then spiced it up with some innuendo and some outright nonsense (or egregious garble -- was Steven Smith saying that bookstores don't allow the Bible in their "religion and spirituality" sections?).

          Just judging from Kaltenbach's Facebook comments, he is focusing on making amends to Costco, rather than complaining about Fox or other news outlets. That may well reflect some reluctance to tangle with Fox News fans in his congregation, but it also seems like a decent choice of priorities -- and I really don't feel like getting mad at a preacher for congratulating Costco on paying their employees decent wages.

          "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

          by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:46:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  If he's making amends, fine. (0+ / 0-)

            Full support. Contrition should be welcomed and accepted.

            What I don't like, however, is whitewashing what he actually did. And it seems this diary is doing more of that and less of praising Kaltenbach for trying to undo damage he caused.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:54:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Look... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Philpm, Miniaussiefan

              I'm not whitewashing what he did. The fact is, I asked him point blank if made the Qur'an statement, and he said, "No. I didn't say anything like that. I never mentioned the Qur'an. I don't know where that's coming from." So I'm not whitewashing. I relaying his denial, direct from him, to me, to you, that he said that. Accept it or not. He's not interested in convincing you. He answered because I asked. Go ask him. Maybe he'll humor you with an answer.

              I watched the Fox video. While I wouldn't have said half of what he said, what he said was not accusatory, and it presented all sides without his own personal adjudication. It was decidedly non-sensationalist.

              Nevertheless, its effects went way beyond what he expected they would, and for that, he has taken responsibility and apologized. And he has said positive things about Costco to boot.

              If that's not enough for you, that's not Caleb's problem, and no longer is it mine.

              I understand you want to be convinced he's genuine. I guess you'll just have to die unsatisfied. Hopefully not for a long, long time.

            •  trouble is, we're not sure what he actually did (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              thomstark

              I know that he posted a picture and then gave some interviews. The quotations actually are pretty banal ("we need to be vocal about our concerns"?). It's easy to say that he should have known how things would go when he talked with Fox News, but pastors aren't used to focusing on how their words could be wrenched out of context. I've had some pretty interesting things happen to my own words; I have no trouble believing that something similar happened to him.

              "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

              by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 10:29:30 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Nooooo! Fox fabricate "facts"? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass

      I don't believe it!

      Psssst:
      http://foxnewslies.net/

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 07:58:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, I'm aware. (0+ / 0-)

        However, if those quotes are lies, Kaltenbach could say so, couldn't he.

        "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

        by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:13:13 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Kaltenback has said so. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AaronInSanDiego, boadicea

          As I posted yesterday on the other Kos diary on this, Fox and others omitted the conditional statement in the quote they tossed around. Caleb said, "If it was intentional, then that does not seem too tolerant." And that's a sentiment with which Ana from TYT emphatically agreed (even though they too misquoted Caleb--probably sourced by Fox).

          He's done no backpedaling on what he's said; he's clarified what he meant and didn't mean, has corrected the misquotation (and other false attributions), and has apologized to Costco for the harm this has done to them, as well as stated his support for the kind of company they are and the way they treat their employees.

          •  I haven't seen anything (0+ / 0-)

            where he claimed that he didn't say what FOX News quoted him as saying.

            If he says that, fine.

            Otherwise, this is a backpedal, not a refutation.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:34:15 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  To wit: (0+ / 0-)
            On the one hand Christians should not yell out ‘persecution’,” he said. “We aren’t living in Iraq or Iran. But on the other hand, I believe that we do need to stand up for our faith and we need to be vocal about our concerns.
            "People are pretty shocked and upset,” he told me.
            Et cetera, et cetera.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:37:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You've seen it... (0+ / 0-)

              in my letter to TYT from yesterday's thread, or you haven't seen it because you haven't seen it. Either way, the fact remains, Fox made up quotes out of thin air, and manipulated others.

              You also know full well how Fox News will pull the quote they want out of somebody, even if that person didn't set out to offer that quote.

              If Caleb said, "People are pretty shocked and upset," what came before that, what came after? What was the question? Fox writes the story it wants to tell.

              Caleb has cleared the record.

              If he wanted to be a culture warrior, he wouldn't have been embarrassed by the fact that people started treating him like a culture warrior.

              •  You have said they made up quotes. (0+ / 0-)

                Caleb hasn't.

                "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:51:25 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes he has. (0+ / 0-)

                  He has said so to me on the telephone. Caleb has said it to me. Are you calling me a liar too?

                  •  Defensive much? (0+ / 0-)

                    Unless and until he says it publicly, your claim is presumed false. Whether that makes you a liar or someone who could have misinterpreted what was communicated or someone who was lied to by Caleb or someone who was told the truth by Caleb but he doesn't want to tangle with FOX -- doesn't matter. If he cannot publicly deny what FOX claims he said, then all we have is your hearsay.

                    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                    by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:57:34 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

        •  The guy apologized. (4+ / 0-)

          And frankly, compared to the other apology I heard this week, which went something like this -- "I'm sorry I used cocaine, but I'm not sorry that I cut off food to kids whose parents smoke pot now and then" -- Caleb's apology is good for me.

          Christianity is about forgiveness. Progressivism has plenty of room in it for forgiveness when someone seems genuinely sorry and isn't propounding the rightwing agenda.

          We have bigger fish to fry. Personally, I'm moving on.

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:46:10 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Fox Is Making Up Quotes (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayBat, AaronInSanDiego

      See my other comment further down this sub-thread, but I also just noticed that Koran "quote." This is totally made up, as I pointed out on the other thread yesterday:

      "I doubt they would label the Koran as fiction, Pastor Kaltenbach said. Heaven help us if they did."

      Caleb never said this. Notice the lack of quotation marks around it in the Fox News article. Caleb assured me he never said anything about the Qur'an, and doesn't know where they're getting that from.

      Let's see. Between Caleb Kaltenbach and Fox News, which one is well known for lying and making stuff up...

      •  "Did you say X?" (0+ / 0-)

        "No."

        It's that simple. Without a flat denial, I don't trust that this wasn't Kaltenbach.

        "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

        by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 08:42:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Troll (0+ / 0-)

          Caleb has no responsibility to assuage your suspicions about him. He told me what happened, and I know him. I also know Fox. I believe Caleb. I've seen his video interview with Fox, and while he wanted to take the opportunity to share his faith, he certainly went out of his way not to throw any accusations at Costco.

          Caleb is more concerned with taking responsibility, offering an apology, and praising Costco's good works, than he is with defending himself against every false claim made by Fox News. Used to be that kind of self-abnegation was a virtue. Now apparently it's a liability.

          •  Troll? (0+ / 0-)

            Don't be a dick.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 09:13:07 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Now would be a good time (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              thomstark, buddabelly

              to take your own advice.

              For real Texas Kaos, you want texaskaos.net, not .com. Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us

              by boadicea on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 09:21:08 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Calla te. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                thomstark

                "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 09:31:06 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  OK, OK. (0+ / 0-)

                  You made me smile.

                  •  Well that's good. (0+ / 0-)

                    While I have a moment of your goodwill let me just say that I think it's perfectly laudable that you want to support your friend and that you believe he was exploited by FOX noise. And he undoubtedly was. Don't get me wrong there. And I think you're perfectly sincere in your defense.  My sole complaint is that his defense just,  well, doesn't good line up with all the facts. I think he was a bit more deliberate in his actions than his story now,  as relayed through you, would suggest.

                    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                    by raptavio on Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 10:16:23 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I appreciate (0+ / 0-)

                      your perspective. You're welcome to it. If you'll watch the Fox News video (have you watched it yet), you'll see his statements and tone are worlds apart from what's presented in the op ed you keep pointing to for "the facts." A clearly slanted, agenda-driven opinion piece by a known fact-twister, versus video evidence of Caleb's perspective on the matter. You don't even have to trust me when I tell you that Caleb has denied making some of the statements in the op ed, to see that something is fishy with it, and not with Caleb's current statements.

                      But I won't try to convince you any longer. It's really not important to us what you think, nor to you what Caleb or I have done. It's an internet argument. It lives and dies here.

                      •  One more for instance... (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        buddabelly

                        One of the very quotes you used from the op ed shows how thoroughly dishonest it is.

                        The writer said, "I received a phone call from Caleb Kaltenbach, the pastor of Discovery Church in Simi Valley, Calif."

                        Already this is a deception. He tells a literal truth, but not the actual truth, which is that he contacted Caleb first, and asked if Caleb would call him for an interview. He makes it sound like Caleb is the one who sought out Fox News.

                        But seriously. If you want to hear it straight from Caleb that he didn't say some of those things, go ask him. You have his Facebook. Nothing is stopping you.

                        :)

                        Peace

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