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View Diary: Growing concern about safety of homeschooled kids in North Carolina (121 comments)

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  •  And I disagree with her tea party hyperbole. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro, 2dot

    Do you consider annual testing in a public environment to be "police state" tactics? This is kind of a tea party thing where people are screaming about their "freedoms" and calling for succession when the Feds want to enforce any number of rules, from gay marriage to environmental standards to teaching evolution. Do you think setting basic literacy standards for homeschooling are too much? Just because homeschoolingmom feels she can do whatever she likes, she really can't, because the state insists on education for children up to a certain age. Is that the "police state?"

    "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

    by shmuelman on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 01:12:01 PM PST

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    •  I think 'homeschoolingmom" above is (0+ / 0-)

      a little cracked.

      Listening to the NRA on school safety is like listening to the tobacco companies on cigarette safety. (h/t nightsweat)

      by PsychoSavannah on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 01:24:50 PM PST

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    •  ROFL (5+ / 0-)

      Wow. You dislike my views so I must be a tea partier? Not so much. I am the crazy, bleeding heart liberal in my crowd of liberal friends. But this is my problem with Democrats-the government has an important role. It needs to help people who need help. It should provide basic social services. But it should not be involving itself in people's personal choices. Who I choose to have sex with, whether I choose an abortion, how I mow my grass, how I educate my children-these things are my choices, not the government's.

      •  So, you seem to be a libertarian liberal (4+ / 0-)

        Which is fine. But from your perspective, how do we best protect defenseless children from being neglected or abused under the cover of homeschooling and a parent's right to educate their children as they choose? For some parents how they "choose" to educate their children is at the end of a belt or a boot toe. It's not that a public school education is in any way superior educationally, as we all know it often isn't. But at least in its being public it provides some broader community oversight on the general well-being of the kids in attendance.

        “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

        by Catte Nappe on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 01:56:18 PM PST

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        •  The same as in public schools (6+ / 0-)

          If there is evidence of abuse then it should be investigated. Otherwise leave people alone. Every homeschooler that I know is involved in multiple activities. Their children are seen. If abuse is occurring, it will as likely be seen in a homeschool setting as in public school.

          •  "The same as public schools" is not an answer (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mskitty, shmuelman

            In a public school the child is seen daily by teachers, counselors, bus drivers, other children and their parents.  Evidence of abuse is visible so that it has a better chance of being noted, reported and investigated. In home schooling that is not the case. In home schooling which is providing cover for neglect and abuse it definitely isn't the case.

            Try again. How do we best protect defenseless children from being neglected or abused under the cover of homeschooling and a parent's right to educate their children as they choose?

            “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

            by Catte Nappe on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 02:18:11 PM PST

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            •  It is an answer (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Another Grizzle, FloridaSNMOM

              Most homeschooled children are seen by multiple adults on a weekly basis. The children interact with the adults, discussing their lives and interests. With the exception of those few children who are kept fully isolated, signs of abuse would be as evident to the parents involved as they would be to a teacher. For those isolated children, if abuse occurring, I don't believe that many of the parents would submit to a background check anyway or they would with full knowledge that a background check would show nothing. So it would be a choice to interfere with the privacy rights of all homeschoolers on the off-chance that an abuser would be found. I am not willing to give up my rights.

              The reality is that there are no good solutions. Abusers are very good at hiding their abuse. But that does not mean that we start taking away the rights of parents in a futile attempt to change that. People are innocent until proven guilty. Parents should be treated as innocent until their is real evidence of wrongdoing.

              •  At the very least, there needs to be some way (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                2dot, mskitty, Treetrunk

                to improve recordkeeping requirements.  That would at least provide one way to make sure parents are really operating a school, and not just using it as a cover.

              •  Acceptable collateral damage, then? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mskitty

                I don't think background checks are the answer, nor mandatory home visits. I think periodic public testing might have some potential. Mandatory annual physicals, maybe? Schools used to do eye and hearing exams. Maybe something along those lines required for home schooled kids, too?

                “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

                by Catte Nappe on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 03:21:32 PM PST

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            •  Do you have an answer, (0+ / 0-)

              Catte Nappe? If you are unwilling to accept the answer that we cannot protect every child in every situation, what do you propose? Background checks is a non-starter. Standardized testing is ridiculous. Inspections of each child by some official -- not going to happen. What do you think could possibly work and be legal and respectful of the vast majority of hsers doing nothing wrong?

            •  I was an abused child in public school. (1+ / 0-)
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              Treetrunk

              I was emotionally, verbally and physically abused by my alcoholic father. You know who noticed it? No one. I went to public school every day. I hid bruises with make up. I changed in the locker room with everyone else. NO ONE NOTICED IT. Heck, the principle went to school with my dad and was bullied by my dad. He didn't bother with me, because I was quiet and stayed out of trouble. No one noticed it, or if they did, they didn't care.

              I am a home schooling parent. My children are NOT abused. Sometimes they have privileges taken away. Sometimes they have extra chores to do. But they aren't beaten, by hand or with a belt. They aren't sworn at, no one in the house drinks more than a glass or a shot of alcohol a month. And they learn a LOT every day, both about traditional school subjects and about life skills that they need to succeed as adults.

              "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

              by FloridaSNMOM on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 07:53:56 PM PST

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            •  I had a friend growing up who was abused (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FloridaSNMOM

              along with his siblings, except for the oldest one who was engaging in abuse along with the parents.  The children went to public schools.

              The father was both a minister of a local church and the school board superintendent.  

              Supervision and oversight by public school does not protect the children from abuse.

          •  Yes, if it were thought by my neighbors or (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FloridaSNMOM

            the local clubs we are involved with--that I or my husband were abusing or neglecting our children, I would not have them long.

            Assuming I would not be publicly beaten by the other adults in their lives, before the police arrive, and then there would be a line of people waiting to foster and adopt them right out from under me.

            Sheesh.

            Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

            by GreenMother on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:48:22 AM PST

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      •  Did not mean to imply you were a tea partier (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Treetrunk

        Your liberties are strongly mitigated just by the fact that you must educate your child. This is part of a civilized society, and everyone is expected to submit to it. I know very few home schooled children, except a few who are educated though a coop structure, and they are all religious - Jewish so they could get a strong education in the Hebrew language, by people with PhD level educations. I know a few who were educated at home because the parents did not want them to know about dinosaurs, evolution, science in general. This is a huge disservice to the children and to our society, but I would not want the government to intervene as long as they learn to read, write, do math, learn US civics.

        "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

        by shmuelman on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 07:49:57 PM PST

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    •  No, I wouldn't use those words. (3+ / 0-)

      I use a whole bunch of other words to describe the miserable failure that is NCLB and standardized testing and standardization of children.

      I think you setting standards for my children is too much.

      And the state does not, at least my state does not, insist on education for children. What it insists on is attendance.

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