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View Diary: Firearms Law and Policy - Do consumers have standing to challenge laws regulating gun sales? (72 comments)

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  •  So which is it? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mildly Unsuccessful Lurker
    It's arguable that because bullets easily punch through walls suppressive fire in a residential setting can easily injure others. For that reason, governments have a right to restrict suppressive fire in the interest of the general public's safety.
    So here's one version of "suppressive fire", indirect fire used to prevent an attacker from returning fire. In line with the definition of the term and recognizable to "Anyone who is trained to arms".

    Suppressive fire article on Wikipedia

    That use of suppressive fire is not even lawful for the  military. I'm certain that mutilating bodies is a violation of the Geneva Conventions.
    And here we have the visceral, emotional definition, the one that has nothing to do with the actual definition. Suppressive fire is not direct. It does not involved "mutilating bodies". What you are doing here is basically trying to frame this issue thusly:

    1). 30-round magazines are only useful for suppressive fire.
    2). Suppressive fire is what the Sandy Hook shooter used to mutilate children
    3). Anyone who wants 30-round magazines available either wants to mutilate children in a similar fashion or is an enabler for those who want to mutilate children.

    You use words in your posts that I never have and attribute them to me, words like "statistically insignificant". The idea is to make me look cold, unfeeling, calculating. You describe my argument as "libertarian" and try to make me out to be some devotee of Ayn Rand with absolutely nothing to back it up. This is pretty much the type of response I predicted: more words are being spent on painting me as callous and selfish or on bloody, heart-rending imagery than anything else. Virtually nothing of the meat of my arguments is touched. Your use of the term "suppressive fire" is incorrect. Your assumption that no one could achieve that level of carnage without a semi-automatic rifle and 30-round magazines is incorrect. And your push to legislate based on the actions of a criminal few is just flat out wrong, as wrong as those who point to a few dozen welfare cheats and demand that everyone on public assistance be drug tested.

    IIRC, the average number of bullets was 11 bullets per body. Hollow point bullets, which are known to turn human flesh into mincemeat. John Lennon was killed with 4 hollow point bullets fired at close range. Modern medicine could not have saved him even if he had been shot on the operating table.
    They're also known to not overpenetrate through walls and hit neighbors when you're utilizing a firearm in self-defense. More manipulative language. More re-framing of the issue to draw emotional lines rather than factual ones.
    You are failing to acknowledge that Adam knew exactly what he was doing with that gun. It wasn't just about killing, it was about mutilation of the bodies, many of them mutilated beyond recognition.
    You recognize that he knew what he was doing, that he was familiar with firearms, that he planned this massacre, but somehow you believe he would not have succeeded if he couldn't have an AR-15 with 30-round magazines. You don't believe he would have found a way around that. You don't believe it would have been as bad or worse if he'd walked in there with a plain old 8-round pump shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot. In the wake of the Navy Yard shooting, can you really believe that?
    •  My comments about Sandy Hook (4+ / 0-)

      refer to what actually happened. I'm not the least bit interested in your fantasies of what Adam Lanza could have done with a different gun. There is a different group at Daily Kos that might welcome your diary on that topic. May I suggest you Kosmail KVoimakas, the leader of that group.

      You've shown by your comments in my diaries a determination to whining and logorrhea that is ahem less than persuasive.

      Have a nice evening.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 01:34:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I see (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DavidMS

        pointing out scurrilous attacks on my character made in lieu of addressing my arguments is "whining" now.

        I'm not the least bit interested in your fantasies of what Adam Lanza could have done with a different gun.
        Yet your own assumptions of what was going through the Sandy Hook shooter's head at the time of the shooting are what, documented fact? There was nothing ever found regarding his plans. You have nothing but speculation regarding why he wasn't shooting until his magazines were empty. Just like you have nothing but speculation regarding what he would have done without an AR-15 and without 30-round magazines. You paint this florid picture of how he planned to go down in a blaze of glory, his mind always on potentially shooting it out with the cops, despite his never exchanging a single round with them even after seeing them.  

        The difference between you and me is, I'm not trying to make public policy out of my speculation as if it's fact.

        You've shown by your comments in my diaries a determination to whining and logorrhea that is ahem less than persuasive.
        I apologize that what I'm trying to get across can't be condensed down to pithy little catchphrases like "kill speed" or "murder weapons". I also apologize if I've given you the impression that I'm trying to persuade you of anything. I don't try to persuade true believers. I provide a counterpoint and nothing more. You lot end up doing more of the persuading than you realize in your overly-personal responses. Good evening to you as well.

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