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View Diary: ACA's narrow networks allow insurance companies to gouge public, doctors (97 comments)

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  •  Ah, so if conservatives don't like something (6+ / 0-)

    we should just give up on it. Cool. I'll just go throw the EPA, Social Security, and the 8 hour workday in the garbage then.

    Don't be daft. There's no difference between your "death panel" or the "market" when it comes to granting care. Denial from either one still kills your grandma.

    The difference is, you're not going to get equality or justice out of a market. You are likely to get your pocket picked, though.

    •  Your mistake: (3+ / 0-)
      Don't be daft. There's no difference between your "death panel" or the "market"
      But Medicare has no price controls now so therefore that model is unsustainable on a general basis.

      "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

      by shrike on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 03:51:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I was talking about Medicare (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib, nextstep, Pi Li

      which is not "the market," but is a single payer system.  

      That's why Medicare, as currently constituted, is completely unsustainable.  See the latest Medicare Trustees Report, pdf here.

      •  Medical cost curve is changing dramatically (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        quill, Tonedevil, myboo, ybruti, worldlotus, JesseCW

        That report, constrained by law to do simple projections, is already out of date. The projection that Medicare would eat the economy were always unrealistic, but now they are completely absurd:

        Medical cost curve shifting

        Fear-mongering about the unsustainability if Social Security and Medicare was fairly mainstream a few years back, but facts don't support it.

        Promoting the need to "reform" (meaning cut) Social Security and Medicare does not seem like a Progressive Democratic position.

        •  Don't be fooled by short-term numbers. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pi Li, Roadbed Guy, howarddream

          Yes, the 2013 report showed a short-term improvement, if you read it.  The date it becomes insolvent was extended a year or two.  But it showed long-term unsustainability, even considering the cost cutting in the ACA.  The 2013 Report said that if Congress never again did the "doc fix," things were just unsustainable.  If Congress did the "doc fix" (which everyone assumes they will), the long term outlook is horrible.  

          The very point that you pointed out  -- the better short term outlook -- was addressed by the Medicare Trustees in an article that you can find reprinted here.

          Here's what the Medicare Trustees say about that:

          There is no reason to believe that the recent reported slowdown in health care cost growth will improve the long-term picture significantly relative to current projections. At our press conference announcing the release of the trustees’ report, I was surprised to hear questions asking in effect whether a recent slowdown in health care cost growth might have a significant effect on the outlook and debate surrounding the Medicare program. To my ear the questions reflected an incomplete understanding of the factors underlying current projections. It would be mistaken to conclude that the recent slowdown in health care cost growth (partially though not wholly attributable to the recent recession) should relax pressure for much-needed Medicare reforms.

          It’s important to understand that our long-term projections already assumed a substantial slowdown in health care cost growth relative to historical rates. This is because the projections are based on demonstrated trends in the elasticity of health care cost growth – in layman’s terms, how much people’s health care consumption patterns change as a result of factors that include health care prices, income levels, and insurance coverage. To put it more crudely, we have never expected that historical rates of health care cost growth will continue to the point where health care services absorb our entire economy. We are not going to have a society in which we are all walking around homeless, naked and starving but with impeccable health care.

          Thus even before the 2010 passage of the ACA, we were assuming that health care cost growth would eventually slow down. Adding the ACA’s aggressive Medicare cost restraints to that assumption means that we are in effect assuming over the long term that Medicare expenses will actually grow more slowly per capita than our general economy. This assumption is one reason why many have questioned whether the ACA’s cost restraints will be sustainable over the long term. At the very most, one might argue that the recent slowdown in health care costs renders current projections slightly more plausible, but no one should be assuming that things are going to look much better.

          It's not the rosy picture that some want to make it out to be.  

          And I'm not trying to be "progressive Democratic" or "conservative Republican."  I'm reporting the facts, as outlined by the Medicare Trustees.  Anyone who is interested in actual facts should look at the full Trustees Report.  

          We'll see when the 2014 Trustees Report comes out this spring.  

        •  The DailyKos far right travels in a pack and (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Urban Owl, priceman

          is utterly immune to logic.  They are opposed to most of the party platform.

          There's really no point to trying to reason with them.  They do not share our goals. They participate here with the sole objective of attempting to forestall progress on issues ranging from a living wage to the right to organize to protecting social security to banking regulation to health insurance reform.

          They're always  on message, and never on our side.

          "I read New republic and Nation/I've learned to take every view.." P. Ochs

          by JesseCW on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:24:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  No, it's really not. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Chi, JesseCW, aliasalias
        That's why Medicare, as currently constituted, is completely unsustainable.
        Once we take money from the MIC and drones and wars and NSA spying and computers.
      •  Medicare isn't too expensive, America's private (4+ / 0-)

        for profit healthcare system is too expensive. Everything Medicare or private insurance buys, from aspirin to heart transplants, costs more here than in other country in the world.

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