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View Diary: Updated "You can sell your desk. You don't need it." ~ Pope Francis (212 comments)

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  •  "why are so many so-called Christians appalled"? (1+ / 0-)
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    Well here's the thing- (and I'm really glad someone else here chimed in with the other side of the coin, because I think it is a reality check)

    There are people who say 'yes, he seems to be doing really good things...but when known pedophiles still roam the world in the name of Catholicism un-prosecuted and un-imprisoned, it's hard to say he's even cleaning his own house, top-down or bottom up.

    I would love to be all 'it's a new era, look at the new Pope!' but I can't until I see legal redress, since they are obviously not dealing with it, left to their own devices in a purely spiritual capacity. Christian criminals are not above the law just because they do it in the name of religion. So fwiw, I think this is a big part of why some people remain skeptical.

    We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

    by nuclear winter solstice on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 05:16:27 AM PST

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    •  Does this ease your mind? (24+ / 0-)

      Dateline April 5, 2013, 3:11 PM

      Pope Francis gave the Roman Catholic Church some marching orders Friday — "act decisively" to root out and punish pedophile priests.

      Doing so is necessary "for the church and its credibility," Francis said, according to the Vatican.

      It was the first time Francis publically addressed the festering sex abuse issue since he was elected last month — and he did so in a meeting with Archbishop Gerhard Müller, who heads the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which investigates perv priests.

      I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

      by Just Bob on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 05:20:32 AM PST

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      •  No, it's more talk (2+ / 0-)

        for the life of me I don't get why people are so gullible about falling for all the lies spouted by these fuckwads.


      •  thank you for the link, but- no, not at all. What (5+ / 0-)

        Barbara Dorris said still rings true to me.

        "Big deal. Actions speak louder than words."
        I am trying to appreciate what he is doing, but I find it still overshadowed.

        We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

        by nuclear winter solstice on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 05:36:52 AM PST

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      •  What would convince me is (4+ / 0-)

        when the Vatican sits down and does what it could do immediately - for example go through this list and make whole all the legal judgment and settlements (which almost always have been paid only fractionally or not at all).

        That would be a start.  

        Otherwise, it's all talk,  and just talk.

      •  Absolutely not. He still hasn't addressed the (6+ / 0-)

        central problem.

        They need to be turned over to civil authorities. All church records on living pedophile priests need to be turned over to civil authorities as well.

        He's only been in office less than a year.  It's understandable that he hasn't done those things yet.  For all I know, he's got a team of lawyers sifting through records and documents right now in preparation.

        But the last two Popes also made nice noises about "cracking down".  They didn't do it.

        It's not change until he changes something.  Talking about it isn't action.

        "I read New republic and Nation/I've learned to take every view.." P. Ochs

        by JesseCW on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 07:05:24 AM PST

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      •  Of Course Not (1+ / 0-)
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        So it's 7 months later - where are all the pedophile priests they've given up at the pope's command? Oh, none. So where are all the pedophile priests the pope has given up himself, with his power to do so? Where are the coverup priests the pope has given to the cops, or just thrown out of the church? Where is all the therapy and actual healing work the pope is paying to give all the victims already known?


        It's bullshit. Stop bullshitting along with the new pope.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 04:38:58 PM PST

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        •  Maybe (1+ / 0-)
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          Just Bob

          There aren't really NEARLY as many pedophile priests as urban legend and media extravaganza would lead you to believe.  Maybe many cases are difficult to interpret, the evidence is decades stale, and the harm done by convicting an innocent man is as great as the harm of molesting an innocent child.  Perhaps the Vatican demands PROOF of criminal activity, just like most courts, which is the exact opposite of what it takes to get a conviction in the court of sensationalized public opinion.

          Then again, perhaps we could finally get the United States Airforce Academy to begin prosecuting officers who rape and sexually abuse (mostly) female cadets?  No male-bonded power structure willingly releases its members to vengeance from the abused.  Why do you expect/demand this from one (a Church which has been a traditional "enemy" of Anglo-American Protestant culture since the 16th century) but not the other (an institution controlled by raving Protestant born-agains)?  

          •  You're Protecting Pedophiles (0+ / 0-)

            Maybe the tooth fairy exists. Is that what your faith-based approach to the Church protecting baby rapers tells you?

            The Vatican doesn't need proof of anything. It, and its new lovable pope, should just forward the reports to the local police, who will investigate and find proof or dismiss the charges.

            You don't need me to tell you that, it's perfectly obvious. But since you evidently prefer to protect pedophile priests, or rather protect your church and its pope, than to protect children, I'm telling you.

            Not that you'll listen. Faith is a hell of a drug.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 11:35:23 AM PST

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    •  I do have to agree with Yojimbo (7+ / 0-)

      on one aspect though. The mammon worshippers wouldn't pay the least bit of attention to the man if not for the office he holds.
        That said, part of his job is akin to our president having to clean up 8 years of bush & co. There's still a lot of joey ratz that needs to be scrubbed off. Difference is Francis has the rest of his life to work on it.
        I have no ties to any religion whatsoever but if the robes and funny hat are what he needs to get his point across to those who are only worried about gettin' theirs, just tools of the trade. All in all, I think the rcc has taken notice, after all Francis was elected, not appointed by birth right so maybe they'll be dealing with the pedophile issue concurrently. Fingers crossed, keeping a good thought.

      •  Very insightful (1+ / 0-)
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        Deep Dark

        I don't care if he has to wear pasties and a thong while he sings "Hail Mary" and dances on a pole to get the world's attention on these issues.  It needs to be gotten.

        The meek shall inherit the Earth that the stupid destroyed.

        by CharlieHipHop on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 12:15:34 PM PST

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      •  He's Got 10 Years (0+ / 0-)

        He's 76 years old. He's probably got 10 years or less to do whatever he'll do. He's already used almost a year of it talking the talk. He could have started walking the walk already, but hasn't.

        If you don't just have faith in that, it's impossible to believe it's anything but a con. Just another con in the millennia of Roman Catholic Church cons.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 04:41:03 PM PST

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        •  can you say in what way you think he's a con? (0+ / 0-)

          That is, do you think he's pretending to live poor but really wallowing in luxury and sneering at the poor and sick when he's offstage?  Or do you think he's a well-meaning pawn in the hands of some Borgia-sequel people behind the throne?  I see him reforming the Vatican bank (sorry, can't post links cause of my IPad idiocy, but they're out there).  I see his statements as important first steps.  If he wants to make changes that'll last longer than his lifetime, he has to build some strong support within the church.

          •  Oh, he has it. (1+ / 0-)
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            Just Bob

            He has most of South America in his corner from the start, and most of Africa will quickly follow.  And even in Europe, there is always a strong strain of idealism among the footsoldiers and parish-level workers, the ordinary priests and nuns, for actually following the message of Christ.  Think of Mother Theresa, a fairly ordinary young nun from Albania.  There are women throughout the Church and around the world who are just waiting for the opportunity to become her.  If Francis gives them the chance, they will follow him into Hell.

          •  Again (0+ / 0-)

            He's already used almost a year of it talking the talk. He could have started walking the walk already, but hasn't.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 11:33:03 AM PST

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      •  An interesting insight (0+ / 0-)
        That said, part of his job is akin to our president having to clean up 8 years of bush & co.
        And, of course, he didn't. At all. No punishments, not even any real investigations, into all the awful things that were done under Bush & Co. In fact, we now 'don't torture' but extraordinary rendition is still happening. And a lot of the other stuff has been expanded. His budget cuts to useful programs have been not only been continued, but in many cases multiplied. And yet, we really like Obama. (For the things that he has accomplished, or in some cases for reasons that I don't fully understand.)

        But somehow a pope that's been in office for what, 7 months? He's judged based on how much of his predecessor's mess he's already cleaned up, and a lot of people have already made up their minds about him.

        Me? I haven't. I'm cautiously optimistic, as I was cautiously pessimistic about the previous one, early on. I think it'll be a while yet before we know for sure what his legacy will be.

    •  And why are some people (0+ / 0-)

      so obsessed with sexual misdoings that they can't see anything else? Francis IS cleaning his own house, with a manure-shovel.  He's got a load of crap to get rid of, of all sorts, and he's taking it out by the cartload.  He's also trying to make use of what he has, even the crappy, in the way that best respects and heals all persons, not just one favored group.  I suspect that he recognizes the harm done by a corrupt, venal bishop living ostentatiously in the face of poverty for two decades as ultimately more damaging to  both the Church and society than the pain inflicted on a single child in a dark closet.  But if you read his treatise, you might comprehend that he sees the big picture in the individual acts and how all sin and suffering ripple outward into global injustice and the separation of humanity from Divine Love.  This man can see beyond himself.  Can you?

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