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View Diary: Response to Buffet's Investment in Wind Power (82 comments)

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  •  Yes, and electricity is cheap in the USA (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman

    because of the downward price pressure applied by fracked methane.

    So cheap, in fact it is putting coal fired plants out of business (which Germany, by contrast, is current putting INTO business).

    •  random fluctuation (3+ / 0-)

      Germany's soft coal burn is within average
      for the last 15 years

      they've chosen for policy reasons to wipe out nuclear
      and it's taking some time to fill that gap,
      i'd bet another year or two and coal starts it's terminal

    •  I'm not exactly an advocate of "fracked methane", (6+ / 0-)

      and the toxic and massive collateral damage associated with it.

      Face it, frackers are scrambling to put as much of their disgusting and dangerous production capacity into service as quickly as possible before the long-term damage potential is fully known and evaluated. We must stop being lulled by the corrupt fracking industry into thinking that their "solution" is even a good short-term answer, let along a long-term one.

      It's still a fossil fuel (greenhouse gas, no carbon benefit) and its production side-effects are hideous.

      "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

      by blue in NC on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 08:57:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's basically a deal with the devil (3+ / 0-)

        a few million jobs today, eternal damnation later.

        A lot of people think very short term, so the former (jobs today) tends to hold more weight over the latter (eternal damnation).

        •  Even those jobs aren't real. (0+ / 0-)

          All the job estimates for tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of jobs for Keystone XL proved to be so much hot air.  There were estimates that seemed based on real manufacturing and construction needs that placed the jobs created in the hundreds, not even thousands, and those wouldn't necessarily last longer than the time to build the pipeline.  The next increase in jobs would be for the inevitable cleanups.

          •  They are quite real to the people who (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            have them.

            And I'm not sure what Keystone XL has to do with that, it hasn't even been built (and actually would probably have the opposite dynamic if it were).

            •  I was thinking of the claims about Keystone XL (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              divineorder, blue in NC

              made by all the groups promoting it.  They claim that it will produced tens or even hundreds of thousands of jobs and they imply that those are long-term jobs.  

              Neither of you mentioned the pipeline.  I apologize for unintentionally threadjacking this off into the Keystone XL weeds and away from the fracking industry that has produced thousands of jobs that you were writing about.

              I will pay more attention next time, and hopefully the times after that.

      •  Fracking (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blue in NC, Social Contract

        absolutely must be banned worldwide forever. So that's not a solution either.

        by Edward L Cote on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 01:00:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  warren buffet says otherwisr (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Social Contract

      Recent contracts for wind energy in Texas have been written as cheaply as $25/MWh. Granted, that includes a tax credit, but it still represents wind energy at a levellised cost well below $50/MWh. This is similar to prices struck in Brazil, where 2.3GW was recently allocated at an average price of $47/MWh. The prices undercut coal and gas fired generation by such a margin that Brazillian authorities had to create a separate auction mechanism for those fuels, although there is no doubt whether they will bother.

      Wind energy may have been around for several decades, but it is still enjoying significant cost decreases. Bloomberg estimates turbine prices have fallen 26 per cent in the last two years, and new structures and mechanisms, not to mention the interest of Buffett and other mainstream investors, are bringing down financing costs as well.

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