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View Diary: Criminally Insane Man arrested with 36 guns (331 comments)

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  •  That requires funding - and we need to demand (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mungley, Glen The Plumber

    Congress appropriate funds for doing exactly that.

    But you're skirting the bigger issue, IMO. Many states do not require gun dealers to be licensed. Only if a gun dealer voluntarily becomes a Federally licensed gun dealer are they subject to FFL licensing standards.

    I'm sure you know that already, and I agree with you basic point that we DO need more resources AND better enforcement of existing law.

    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

    by LilithGardener on Fri Jan 03, 2014 at 10:25:19 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  It's not rocket science exactly. (3+ / 0-)

      If you buy or sell more than x guns per year/month you are a defacto dealer.

      How ia it possible that  a guy can set up a table at a gun show with 100 guns or more and claim not to be a dealer?

      •  Dealer is not defined in the law - believe it or (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peterfallow

        not.

        This story is THE poster child for why we need two things:
        a) universal background checks,
        b) all gun dealers must be licensed, either at the Federal level, or at the state level.

        There also needs to be a transfer mechanism as part of estate law that allows a legal gun owner to formally disburse an asset before death, such that families can transfer ownership of a family heirloom to another family member. I think I would even vote for public funding of those background checks, say 1 free background check/transfer per gun in any 10 year window.

        E.g. Grandpa can formally transfer the great-grandfather's gun to his grandaughter who may be only 10 or 12 years old, as long as the parents are legally able to own guns, and have been trained/licensed in safe storage/lawful use, etc.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Fri Jan 03, 2014 at 11:06:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Missed a point (0+ / 0-)
          b) all gun dealers must be licensed, either at the Federal level, or at the state level.
          You need to define "dealer" first. As an example of what is currently enforceable, a 2009 ATF press release mentions the "unlicensed dealer" conviction of someone who sold 400 guns over 15 years (1 per 2 weeks).
          •  IMO, that will be left up to the states (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            peterfallow, Glen The Plumber

            the same way that the specifics of voter registration is left up to the state, for example.

            You know as well as I do, that Federally licensed dealers are already defined. An FFL is anyone licensed to sell just one gun. Even if they never sell any guns.

            The word "private sales" is code for a "Don't ask/Don't tell" honor policy that facilitates transfer of guns from legal owners into the gray market where they can be easily transferred into the illegal gun market. Guns are better than money in some of those channels.

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Fri Jan 03, 2014 at 11:55:52 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Au contraire (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Neo Control

              From the ATF site:

              Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

              A: A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

              It's pretty clear that the ATF is aware that individuals sell an occasional gun to another individual and the ATF has gone as far as to describe the exact conditions under which an "unlicensed person" can legally sell a firearm.
              •  Nothing in your comment contradicts my prior (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                peterfallow, Glen The Plumber

                comment.

                Your nonsequitor about the private sales by unlicensed dealers emphasizes that the private sales exemption is a loophole so big that the French farming industry could drive all their tractors/trucks through it without even forming single file. They could drive side-by-side without even brushing the edges, the loophole is that huge.

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Fri Jan 03, 2014 at 12:39:47 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Wowsa (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Kasoru

                  I don't even need to be in this argument. LilithGardener says:

                  Dealer is not defined in the law - believe it or not
                  LilithGardener replies:
                  You know as well as I do, that Federally licensed dealers are already defined.
                  LilithGardener adds some commentary about LilithGardener:
                  Nothing in your comment contradicts my prior comment
                  LilithGardener is quite capable of rebutting everything LilithGardener says without my help, and can even provide snide commentary about LilithGardener.

                  My work here is done.

                  •  Adjectives define subsets (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Glen The Plumber

                    they define a subset.

                    Federally licensed dealers

                    is a subset of

                    Dealers

                    I think I learned adjectives and subsets in First or Second grade, didn't you?

                    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                    by LilithGardener on Fri Jan 03, 2014 at 02:10:11 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

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