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View Diary: Should we amend the US Constitution? Justice Stevens thinks so, incl. 2nd Amendment (new book) (321 comments)

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  •  Not to Mention the Stolen Election of 1980 (13+ / 0-)

    accomplished by private negotiating with the enemy and the promise of arms for hostages.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 07:20:07 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  You mean orchestrating with Iran to make Carter (7+ / 0-)

      look bad?

      "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

      by We Shall Overcome on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 07:26:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  a tradition of treason (4+ / 0-)

      starting with Nixon's minions sabotaging the Viet-Nam peace talks before his election

    •  That's re-writing history. (8+ / 0-)

      President Carter lost re-election because of economic and domestic issues.  I remember the energy crisis, long lines at the gas station, stagflation, the Misery Index.  Try being able to afford to buy a house with home mortgage loans at 15%.

      Now, I'm not saying all that was necessarily President Carter's fault; Presidents don't have all that much control over the economy.  But that's what defeated him.

      •  Its you who are re-writing history . (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Old Sailor, Smoh

        And I think you do it with ill intent .

        "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

        by indycam on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 08:23:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  President Carter was defeated (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          high uintas, andalusi, Smoh, nextstep

          because he was viewed by voters as an ineffective leader. He was an incumbent POTUS who won only six states and lost 51% to 41%. The 1980 Presidential election wasn't close, it was a rout.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 12:45:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  And why was he seen as an ineffective leader ? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            happymisanthropy, Johnny Q

            If the hostages were released under Carter , before the elections , the results would have been very different .
            I was watching at the time , were you ?

            "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

            by indycam on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 02:29:42 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think you are not being realistic. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VClib

              If the hostages had been released one week before the election, I seriously doubt the election would have been any different.  

              That was such a landslide victory -- Carter only carried 6 states.  What basis do you have for believing that if the hostages had been released before the election, he would have won?  

              I was there, too.  President Carter -- whether it was his fault or not -- was pretty universally viewed as ineffective, as unable to deal with the energy crisis, the long lines at the gas station, the huge inflation at the same time as a dismal economy.   The hostages were only a part of that view of President Carter, but his problem with the hostages was sealed with the failed rescue attempt.  It may not have been his fault, but that was the perception. That failed operation, more than the delay in the hostage release, caused Carter's problems with respect to the hostages.  

              That failed operation happened in April, 1980 and gave Kennedy momentum so that he was a serious contender to defeat the incumbent President for the nomination of his own party.  President Carter is  the only incumbent President in my lifetime who was seriously at risk for not getting renominated by his own party.  That tells you something.  

              President Carter's strategy was to paint Reagan as so dangerous that he'd press the nuclear button in a second, so that people would think that, as bad as things were under President Carter, Reagan was too dangerous to take a chance on.  Reagan's performance in the debate ("there you go again") portrayed him -- again, whether fairly or not -- as not the dangerous old man that Carter wanted him to be perceived as.  If I remember correctly, it was that debate that really opened up the race into becoming a landslide victory for Reagan.  

              I know people would like to think that if only the hostages had been released before the election instead of inauguration day, if they had been released, say, on October 15, that landslide victory of 44 states for Reagan would have turned into a Carter win.  But I've seen no credible analysis of that election that supports that.  And it's certainly not how I remember things.  

            •  indycam - I sure was (0+ / 0-)

              I was working in the MSM at the time.

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 05:30:34 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  And the Stolen Debate Briefing Books (3+ / 0-)

      Ronald Reagan telling Carter "there you go again" was a scripted line derived from studying Carter's debate briefing books, knowing in advance it would be a theme in Carter's debate strategy. Books Republicans had stolen from the Carter campaign.

      Which is precisely what Nixon's crime in the Watergate was: robbing Democratic presidential campaign confidential materials.

      Since Nixon's 1968 election was rigged by assassinating Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X (among others), the last legitimate Republican victory was Eisenhower 1956. And with Nixon on that ticket too, who knows what they actually pulled to steal that one, too.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 08:32:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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