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View Diary: Sometimes You Have To Be Allowed To Criticize Faiths (196 comments)

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  •  Fabulous! (6+ / 0-)

    Sounds like you have the same subversive, atavistic social agenda as my town's cooperative ministries association. ;)

    Fight them to the end, until the children of the poor eat better than the dogs of the rich.

    by raincrow on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 10:09:13 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Thats soo cool you get to pat yourselves on the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LaFeminista

      back being so awesome, and when someone out there, on the outside of a religious group says HEY__THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING BAD THINGS TO ME AND OTHERS IN THE NAME OF RELIGION

      your first act is to defend yourself as if she called you out personally.

      So basically you are defending bad people who do bad things, so that you don't feel labeled "guilty by association"

      And this serves your cause HOW? It doesn't look like you are addressing the real problem here. It's not LaFeminista.

      So from the outside it looks as if ALL CHRISTIANS stick together, and defend and cover for each other, no matter what.

      Is that your goal?

      Did she name your church specifically or even your denomination? Isn't Christianity as very very big religion full of all sorts of different sects?

      So an outsider being consistently and constantly wronged by people who claim Christianity as their faith and their justification, named by a woman who lacked the vocabulary to split sectarian hairs, gets it between the eyes, because that's just easier than addressing the fact that like every family, every religion has some asshole uncle that does bad things.

      The place where you put your energy now is far more disturbing than La Feminista's anger, especially seeing how we women are losing the War on Women, because we have run into a wall crosses, some in the Beltway, some funding the Beltway, and many on television and radio or in the pulpit, taking our rights away in the name of THEIR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.

      And you defend that.

      The Interfaith Alliance must be so proud

      "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

      by GreenMother on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 11:33:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow. What are you talking about? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Shawn87

        Fight them to the end, until the children of the poor eat better than the dogs of the rich.

        by raincrow on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 01:56:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your messed up responses to this diary (0+ / 0-)

          You are taking this personally, without acknowledging the very real hurt that is being perpetrated upon women in the name of not just religion, but religion being pushed by the what feels like the unstoppable cart of National and State level politics.

          Real Women are being hurt by these antics, by groups that hide behind The Robe and Crown. And you act surprised that we are pissed.

          Really?

          "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

          by GreenMother on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 03:22:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Perhaps you're the one who is taking this (0+ / 0-)

            personally. Someone made a blanket statement that is outright false, I poked at its falsity, someone else and I mused about said falsity based on our own experiences and associations. The problems in our country and the wider world don't get solved by embracing broad brush bullshit, no matter the nature of the bullshit. Nor are they solved by magical thinking, starting with the notion that liberal Christians are collectively responsible for and can somehow force a change in the thinking, lack of thinking, political power, funding, media access, beliefs, and behavior of RWNJ Christians. If we had that power, fucking well believe me this planet would long ago have been on its way to transcending poverty, tyranny, slavery, rape culture, war, and environmental devastation.

            Peace out.

            Fight them to the end, until the children of the poor eat better than the dogs of the rich.

            by raincrow on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 04:20:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Damn straight I am taking this personally (0+ / 0-)

              I am female--I am a woman, with female relatives and friends, and I have DIRECTLY been affected by this mentality as both a civilian and as someone in the American military, by would be "Missionaries" hell bent on MAKING me adhere to their beliefs by any means necessary.

              DAMNIT--WAKE UP!

              Do you think I like it this way? Do you think that I am not uncomfortable having to even say the words at all, to bring it up?

              Part of the reason it pisses me off to such a degree, beyond my personal stake in this whole mess, is the profound feeling of disappointment.

              Christians assume, that because I am not one of them, that I don't know how things work. That I have never been to church or read the bible. So because they have convinced themselves that someone like me doesn't know the rules, that they can play the fool and I and others will be none-the-wiser.

              I need you.

              I need people like you to help me preserve Everyone's rights. I don't want to hate anyone or take anyone's rights away, but I am sick to death of being blamed for the social ills that plague every civilization.

              I am not standing up to these other Christians just to be a bitch. I am not angry for no good reason.

              Controlling my sex life and reproductive cycles isn't going to solve those problems.

              Making everyone pretend to be Christian isn't going to solve those problems.

              Making everyone pretend to not be GAY is not going to solve those problems.

              Blaming Atheists or Agnostics or religious minorities isn't going to make these problems go away.

              Shunning non-Christians isn't going to make our problems stop or disappear.

              Punishing and Shaming the poor isn't going to solve any problems but it will make more

              The only way to solve the problems that this country and the world face is to practice compassion, and forward thinking, And that cannot happen if you and I allow certain sects to keep harming minorities, the poor, and the environment.

              I am fighting every way I can, while adhering to the laws and trying to maintain some kind of moral and ethical center about it all.

              But there are not enough of people like me in this country, that holds a dominant cultural paradigm of Christianity, if people like you don't step forward and speak out as well. If you and people like you don't support the general freedoms of us all, then I should give up and buy a passport.

              That's why I am pissed off. I am not Anti-Christian--I just don't understand why anyone would make excuses for sectarian violence and religio-political hegemony that adheres to the likes of Pat Robertson with his diamond Mine, or John Haggee, or the late Jerry Falwell, or Phyllis Schafely or the old Coral Ridge Ministries, or that insane Name it and Claim it movement in their unholy alliance to the Dominionists.

              Why would any decent Christian stoop to protecting the likes of that, especially when we know what they would like to do to our Democratic Republic?

              "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

              by GreenMother on Fri Apr 11, 2014 at 04:43:11 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  GreenMother (0+ / 0-)

        I don't know you, and I don't know how you are constantly wronged by religion.  Maybe, judging by your tag line, you are Wiccan.  That that would make sense and I can imagine some Christians, probably most, having a problem with that.  I don't.  

        I do know Wicca is a religion, so when Richard, at the top of this thread, says that "Religious sects are in practice a means of promoting a xenophobic herd instinct," I think he's talking about your sect and faith too.  Maybe your willing to have your faith swept up in that generality because it fit's your experiences with other faiths.  I'm not.

        You say "from the outside it looks as if ALL CHRISTIANS stick together, and defend and cover for each other, no matter what."  I guess the same can be said of white people, or black people, or native Americans, etc. That is probably more true than members of each of those collections of people care to admit.  On the other hand, its also false.  As to whether Christians stick together, I think Christians should aspire to stick together, show love to one another and to the larger world, but I also think in general they fall miserably short of that goal.  I don't know that aspiration, loving one another, would rank high on the list of things many Christians think they need to do.   What can I say?  Those who feel that way are wrong.  On the other hand, there are a lot of good religious people out there.  I see them every day.

        I even as a Christian, I can't say that I can distinguish between the good christian faiths and the bad ones.  I try to avoid the exercise. I think one's time is better spent getting to know individuals, whether they have faith or not, and living out one's own faith to the best of one's ability.  For me, that faith involves living a life that expresses love for God's creation, seeking justice for the inhabitants of that creation and teaching that faith in a way that is true to one's own belief.

        So on behalf of Christians I would like to apologize for how you are treated.  I hope that those who hurt you see the light and treat you with love and respect.  As a christian, I aspire to that.

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