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View Diary: Scientists: "Jesus said to them, my wife" papyrus is real (72 comments)

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  •  One of my first reads on my way out (11+ / 0-)

    of the door of Christianity was Elaine Pagels' Gnostic Gospels.  My church had forgotten to tell me that there were other gospels written that had been suppressed by the RCC.  That was a rather large omission on their part and one that made me wonder what ELSE I was taught that wasn't quite the whole story. Of course, these Christ cults were around both before and way after the alleged lifetime of "Jesus", so any stories that talk about Jesus and his wife have no more authority than the 4 gospels in the bible.

    Even though I am a full card carrying atheist now, the question of the historical existence of "Jesus" still grabs my attention.

    The next great book on this will be out any day now... On the Historicity of Jesus Christ by Richard Carrier.

    •  thanks for remind (3+ / 0-)

      on the Richard Carrier book... can't remember if he's got the creds of Elaine Pagels but I buy all the books anyway...

    •  Also they forget to mention that (4+ / 0-)

      the Book of Revelation should have been suppressed, along with all the rest of the obviously non-Christian Apocalypse literature. As I have seen the tale recounted, too many Christians of the time thought that the John of Revelation was one of the other Johns of Jesus's time, particularly that he was John the beloved disciple.

      The "heretical" Apocalypse books are as varied as the "heretical" Gospels.

      Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

      by Mokurai on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 12:16:37 PM PDT

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      •  I read one treatise that had Revelation (3+ / 0-)

        as a thinly-veiled political rant. It said, at the time Revelation was written, one could lose his life for speaking Truth to Power. So writers used metaphor and over-the-top descriptions to air their views and grievances. Knowledgeable people could recognize who was being written about. It was said Revelation was one of these political tracts that was added by a few people in power to the works that became the Bible.

        Could be. Don't know.

        "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

        by Gentle Giant on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 01:43:24 PM PDT

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        •  This is what we were taught (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Gentle Giant

          in a Catholic uni, that Revelation was a rant against two specific emperors (Nero and Caligula?)

          I am an electrical engineer, run a reasonably high traffic server, and build autopilots and drones for a living. If you have technical questions, ask away and I will try to give a cogent answer.

          by spiritplumber on Fri Apr 11, 2014 at 06:06:05 AM PDT

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          •  That was probably it. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            It was a long time ago that I'd perused the article. And it's been a long time since I read Revelation. But the depictions of some of the creatures mentioned would lend themselves well to metaphoric critique of human creatures. (Bugs with human heads? I know a few of those.)

            "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

            by Gentle Giant on Fri Apr 11, 2014 at 06:42:02 AM PDT

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    •  I read a couple of Elaine Pagels books (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      but it was probably 20 years ago. I vividly remember one of the points she made.

      She said we think of the Roman Catholic Church as the single Christian church during the Middle Ages, and then later the various Protestants came along and Christianity split up. But she said in the early days -- the first few hundred years after the crucifixion -- every church was different. And each church made up their own rules. Some allowed women or slaves to be preachers. Some only allowed circumcised Jews to join their church. And some (the gnostics) thought that Jesus was a person who became a god and anybody could do the same thing (sort of like anyone can become a buddha or boddhisatva).

      Then the church was incorporated into the Roman Empire and they had to make rules and hierarchies. Multiple churches became one church (ruled by the Pope) and then it split into multiples again.

      "Stupid just can't keep its mouth shut." -- SweetAuntFanny's grandmother.

      by Dbug on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 05:57:12 PM PDT

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